Dragon Skin Armor

[Tywyll]

If a player skinned a dragon and got enough to make armor out of it (4 hex dragon) and had it made into wearable armor, what stats would you give it?

I was thinking 3 point leather armor that maybe gave 1/2 damage from fire.

[Chris Rice]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

If a player skinned a dragon and got enough to make armor out of it (4 hex dragon) and had it made into wearable armor, what stats would you give it?

I was thinking 3 point leather armor that maybe gave 1/2 damage from fire.

Ok, but it'd be heavy, perhaps like chainmail so would still give -3DX I think. The fireproofing seems reasonable. But perhaps dragons and their kin can smell it and they won't like that you've killed one of their own....

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

Ok, but it'd be heavy, perhaps like chainmail so would still give -3DX I think. The fireproofing seems reasonable. But perhaps dragons and their kin can smell it and they won't like that you've killed one of their own....

Why?

I mean, why would it be specifically heavy? I can see that in the case of really large dragons maybe, but you'd only use the parts that would make it suitable to wear.

Now, if the scales came from a 7 or 14 hex dragon, I'd probably up its protection and dx mod.

[JLV]

It's interesting that some of you would assume my comments were based on the "morality" of the situation (though I suppose you could assume that via my use of the term "faux pas"). I'm not much in judgement of people's morals.

My thought is that a dragon would do his absolute best to discourage other people from skinning dragons. And if word got out that someone was doing that, I suspect other dragons, even if they didn't particularly like one another, might get together to do something about it.

Cows aren't intelligent, which defeats the purpose of your comparison. Likewise, I have yet to see a warrior wear a necklace of human teeth (unless he was a cannibal...or an SS goon, maybe), and anyone who goes around sporting trophies from humans is generally looked upon askance by other warriors (at least in my experience with actual warriors). Shrunken heads are usually there for ceremonial reasons (often magical) in the tribes that use them, and aren't often carried into battle since they can be damaged as a result. Just sayin'

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by JLV

It's interesting that some of you would assume my comments were based on the "morality" of the situation (though I suppose you could assume that via my use of the term "faux pas"). I'm not much in judgement of people's morals.

I think you do. People look askance at taking human trophies for moral reasons.

My thought is that a dragon would do his absolute best to discourage other people from skinning dragons. And if word got out that someone was doing that, I suspect other dragons, even if they didn't particularly like one another, might get together to do something about it.

Of course they would, but that doesn't stop wizards and alchemists from using their bits now (or gargoyle bits, which are also intelligent).

Cows aren't intelligent, which defeats the purpose of your comparison.

True, but I think you are ignoring a person's ability to 'other' people for their own interests.

Likewise, I have yet to see a warrior wear a necklace of human teeth (unless he was a cannibal...or an SS goon, maybe), and anyone who goes around sporting trophies from humans is generally looked upon askance by other warriors (at least in my experience with actual warriors). Shrunken heads are usually there for ceremonial reasons (often magical) in the tribes that use them, and aren't often carried into battle since they can be damaged as a result. Just sayin'

We aren't talking about modern warriors with modern sensibilities. As awful as the real world is, there has been some increase in general empathy and horror. But remember, it wasn't that long ago that the Nazis made lamp shades out of human skin.

[zot]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

We aren't talking about modern warriors with modern sensibilities. As awful as the real world is, there has been some increase in general empathy and horror. But remember, it wasn't that long ago that the Nazis made lamp shades out of human skin.

And you can still see extreme brutality today in certain areas of the world, with videos of beheadings and worse.

I think there's always been a mixture of brutality and empathy. We like to think we invented empathy but you can see quite a lot of it in the Ugaritic texts of Canaanite myths from around 1200 BC which you can find in Stories of Ancient Canaan. The book is fairly short and I thought it was well worth the read. You can also see what we tend to think of as modern sensibilities in the Book of Job, which has some overlap with the Ugaritic texts.

For that matter, we also like to think we invented engineering but the clockwork device, the Antikythera mechanism was made somewhere between 205 BC and 87 BC. It makes me wonder how much tech that we don't know about has just dissolved over time.

The more I learn of ancient texts and culture, the less advanced we seem...

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

I think you do. People look askance at taking human trophies for moral reasons.

*sigh* So you're telling me what I meant, are you? All righty then...

Originally Posted by Tywyll

Of course they would, but that doesn't stop wizards and alchemists from using their bits now (or gargoyle bits, which are also intelligent).

True, but people use fetal material in scientific research too. There seems to be some slack cut for that sort of thing...

Originally Posted by Tywyll

True, but I think you are ignoring a person's ability to 'other' people for their own interests.

And cows still aren't intelligent, which still makes the simile inapt.

Originally Posted by Tywyll

We aren't talking about modern warriors with modern sensibilities. As awful as the real world is, there has been some increase in general empathy and horror. But remember, it wasn't that long ago that the Nazis made lamp shades out of human skin.

See my actual comment, which specifically mentioned "SS goons"...

[Chris Rice]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

Why?

I mean, why would it be specifically heavy? I can see that in the case of really large dragons maybe, but you'd only use the parts that would make it suitable to wear.

Now, if the scales came from a 7 or 14 hex dragon, I'd probably up its protection and dx mod.

I just imagine dragon skin as much thicker than horse or cow hide normally used for leather armour. If you see it differently that fine.

[malchidael]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

If a player skinned a dragon and got enough to make armor out of it (4 hex dragon) and had it made into wearable armor, what stats would you give it?

I was thinking 3 point leather armor that maybe gave 1/2 damage from fire.

My favorite TFT character had dragon scale armor. We basically treated it as 3 point leather, with no other powers - but, that extra point of protection didn't count against future enchantments.

That didn't matter -he never made enough money while I was still playing him to get it enchanted.

[Skarg]

(I actually have a party closing in on being in position to commission some, if they make it home alive.)

I'm curious to see what others think. I'm thinking the results will depend on the dragon and the crafter(s) - a combination of Master Armory, Tanner, and Leatherworker might give the best results, which for 4-hex dragon scale might be something like the Fine Leather Armor from Interplay that I never allowed (i.e. stops 3 hits, but DX/MA/weight TBD). ;-) Without at least a Master Armorer, I'm thinking you'd end up with fancy-looking leather armor or maybe chainmail equivalent, or worse on a failed crafting roll.

It seems thematic to resist fire damage, but then it'd only be fair if dragons got that advantage too, no?