Creating a Super Mage/Cleric

[Edeldhur]

Ok, adding another question on top of this:

- Lets picture that i pay the points above for the modular ability POOL.

- Since we are using "spells as powers" lets imagine that I create a power costing 4 points, do I have to pay this in addition to the pool itself, or the points already payed assume that I can use any power up to 15 point cost?

- Does this mean I can design multiple abilities to chose from, without any additional cost?

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

Ok, adding another question on top of this:

- Lets picture that i pay the points above for the modular ability POOL.

- Since we are using "spells as powers" lets imagine that I create a power costing 4 points, do I have to pay this in addition to the pool itself, or the points already payed assume that I can use any power up to 15 point cost?

- Does this mean I can design multiple abilities to chose from, without any additional cost?

You can use any combination of powers up to your pool points that match your limitations on your pool. [default mental only modifiers for physical and/or social available] unlike a slot a pool can have multiple smaller powers in it at one time.

A Cosmic Pool you can design multiple abilities to chose from, without any additional cost. other pools the cost will depend on the pool source, like Mine example the cost is it must please the god in it's use. Which is something you discusses with your GM, Mighy example cleric has a god that is pleased by helping the weak and the injured and slaying undead. So you could pray for an attack spell to use to defend a village form raiders... however not the same spell used to raid a village...

There is also a cost of the time it takes to swap out the points in the pool , for Divine Inspiration its a Prayer that takes a second for point of the pool you are changing.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

Additionally, my GM decided to run things a little differently as far as mana goes - he created a different stat called mana which costs 2 points per level, and which is spent if wanted, to cast spells. Additionally, there is a new limitation for spells that cost mana which is -4 points for each point of mana it costs.

So let me get this straight... your GM is giving a flat [-4/Level] points instead of a discounted percentage of the total cost of the power (ie: a Limitation) if the power costs MP..? Is he extremely new at this GURPS stuff?

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

I guess that the Gyroc skill at 25 and the dodge at 17 made my GM at the time rule that I simply could not gain powers out of the hat (it was out of pure anger for sure, not game balance :D).

Your GM ran a high-power modern/UT campaign with no explosions (or other situations in which Dodge doesn't trump everything)? For shame...

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

I do have the feeling also that I am spending too many points on Compartmentalized Mind and Mana Regeneration, but does it not seem that the mana regen will become essential in the long run?

Hard to say when we're talking about stuff your GM pulled out of his butt that hasn't been fully explained to us... Do MP refresh at the same rate as RAW ER without Regeneration, or do you need Regeneration to regain them at all? With Fast Regen at Limited Use 4/day and the other Limitations listed, you're talking about paying [30] for an ability that works 4 times/day and restores 1 MP each time, so in the latter case I could see how it might be essential in the long run, but in the former case it's an expensive, nigh-worthless boondoggle.

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

And also, compartmentalized mind seems like completely amazing for a caster... casting a spell and maintaining another? Am i looking at it wrong?

You might be. The default with Spells-As-Powers is that they don't require Concentration to maintain at all, unless you slap a Requires Concentration -15% Limitation on there. The primary use for a magic-only Compartmentalized Mind with the powers as you've got them built right now would be to allow you to take a Concentrate to cast a spell while you're also taking a full Move to get behind cover, doing an All-Out Defense, punching somebody in the face, casting another spell, etc (which is still pretty handy).

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

Ye, the striking strength is for one arm only - none of the fighter types actually uses two handed weapons...

I'd call that about a -60% Limitation on it.

[Edeldhur]

Hello again people,

Even though this thread has been dormant, I am going back at it.

I have kinda finished my 250 point imbuement archer and have began playing with him, but i guess i kinda got a "bug" about creating GURPS characters, and now that I am beginning to understand the rules better I will be giving another go at my original mage/cleric.

My first conclusion is that the very mage/cleric concept is kinda out of place in GURPS - there is nothing preventing me from building on the concept of a cleric and still thread off slightly in the direction of offensive "spells" so I will be a cleric by nature - brandishing holy power, buffing my allies and spewing bolts of holyness to the bad guys.

I am definitely planning on running on modular abilities since my GM is going the "spells as powers" path - now, for a 250 point character... would a... 40 point pool be "adequate" ?

[mlangsdorf]

A straight 2d ranged attack with enough range to matter is going to run you around 8-15 points, depending on how you enhance and limit. A cool spell, like an explosive fireball or a cone of lightning, can run 20-30 points. A great spell, like a hard to resist area sleep affliction, is going to be 35+ points.

So having 40 points in your modular pool is probably good. However, most modular pools are going to run 120+ CP for that much in the pool, which is a significant investment. It's doable, but you may find yourself severely limited for all that flexibility.

Alternately, a 40 point attack spell and 6 alternate abilities runs you no more than 98 points, and if you can't figure out what you're going to do with 7 different attack spells, you're probably suffering from option paralysis anyway.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

My first conclusion is that the very mage/cleric concept is kinda out of place in GURPS

Not necessarily. That really depends on what those words mean in the setting and how magic works. In Yrth (as an easily accessible example) a priest who is also a mage is pretty common, and there isn't any such thing as clerical magic. In another setting "mages" might use Realm Magic and "clerics" might use Divine Favor. There's very few character concepts that can fit in the narrative space of most genre fiction that GURPS can't handle.

[Edeldhur]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

A straight 2d ranged attack with enough range to matter is going to run you around 8-15 points, depending on how you enhance and limit. A cool spell, like an explosive fireball or a cone of lightning, can run 20-30 points. A great spell, like a hard to resist area sleep affliction, is going to be 35+ points.

So having 40 points in your modular pool is probably good. However, most modular pools are going to run 120+ CP for that much in the pool, which is a significant investment. It's doable, but you may find yourself severely limited for all that flexibility.

Alternately, a 40 point attack spell and 6 alternate abilities runs you no more than 98 points, and if you can't figure out what you're going to do with 7 different attack spells, you're probably suffering from option paralysis anyway.

I truly cannot argue with that, the investment is huge, even if I can somehow manage to lower its cost to like 20% of the total without completely crippling its usefulness.

The thing is that, in my head, having for example an attack ability as the "main one" it would mean that the alternate ones for the sake of consistency, should be something at least attack-related, like a slow, or area, etc.

This means that flexibility implies having either a modular abilities pool or what I am now equating, which would be "power/spell chains" by specialty and alternate from one another - something like:

- single target heal > multiple target heal > disease heal > restoration > etc;
- single attack spell > area attack > area slow > etc;
- single target stat buff > multiple target buff > multi target movement buff:
- concealment (invisibility) > improved concealment (sight + sound) > mass...
- etc

Dunno if this has any legs to stand on without trying it first - I want to be able to do different things, not having to spend whole sessions firing the same laser type "ray of light" beam or dropping the same xD straightforward heal :D

[Edeldhur]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Not necessarily. That really depends on what those words mean in the setting and how magic works. In Yrth (as an easily accessible example) a priest who is also a mage is pretty common, and there isn't any such thing as clerical magic. In another setting "mages" might use Realm Magic and "clerics" might use Divine Favor. There's very few character concepts that can fit in the narrative space of most genre fiction that GURPS can't handle.

I actually did not express myself very well: what I meant is that coming from a different type of game system, and even though it is not necessarily like that, I fell into the stereotypical vision of the offensive mage and the supportive priest, when truth is it really does not have to be like that.

On the other hand, the flexibility from GURPS allows a priest to be as offensive as one may want, distancing oneself from that compartmentalized view of things - that is what i meant :D

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

I actually did not express myself very well: what I meant is that coming from a different type of game system, and even though it is not necessarily like that, I fell into the stereotypical vision of the offensive mage and the supportive priest, when truth is it really does not have to be like that.

But it can be if you want it to! Dungeon Fantasy does this kind of niche protection, for example.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

The thing is that, in my head, having for example an attack ability as the "main one" it would mean that the alternate ones for the sake of consistency, should be something at least attack-related, like a slow, or area, etc.

This means that flexibility implies having either a modular abilities pool or what I am now equating, which would be "power/spell chains" by specialty and alternate from one another - something like:

Published examples allow for great variety in alternate attacks. A character with Divine Powers can have Smite (area effect burning attack versus demons), Holy Fire (short ranged single target overhead smash), and Vampiric Touch (touch ranged steal health) all on the same alternate power group, along with their Healing Touch and Create Food effects. So you may voluntarily choose to limit yourself, but it's not required.

Personally, I like keeping all of my attack powers (however unrelated) in one group, and all my utility/defense powers in one or two others.