02-02-2012, 07:30 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
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On the Nature of Metatron...
...I've always wondered about this, and the recent threat about the nature of Malakim brought it up again.
Canonically in IN, Metatron was an angel, a Seraph Archangel, slain by Lucifer at the start of the Rebellion. What was so special about Metatron, though, that killing him cut off an avenue of communication with God? (Put another way, why did Lucifer kill Metatron and not Raphael, Gabriel, Yves, or Jean, each of whom had another unique avenue of communication with God? Yves might be indestructible, but we know Raphael wasn't and it's unlikely that Gabriel and Jean are.) He's not listed among the first angels created, so he showed up sometime after the point where the angels under God's command started to make the universe, but there's no mention of communication problems during that period. All very mysterious. What are your thoughts? What was his Word (Voice of God is the obvious one, but are others possible)? Did he have Servitors? Was he a he, she, or it? Do you just imagine him as Alan Rickman? In what ways--Songs, Rites, attunements, relics, etc--might he influence a modern-day game of IN?
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“The world is going to Hell in a hand-basket, but I’ve got Good News: I saved my soul by switching to Heaven.” —Baruel, former Djinn of the Media, now Cherub of Destiny and the Angel of Good News |
02-02-2012, 10:44 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boston
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Re: On the Nature of Metatron...
1) Metatron was God. She's dead. Deal with it.
2) Metatron was a very early Balseraph. Not a malicious one or anything, just a Seraph who fibbed a few times back when the stars were cooling, and, discovering that everyone believed whatever he said, reasonably concluded that he spoke with the Voice of God. Heaven went along with this, no wiser than Metatron himself, until Lucifer finally put an end to it. 3) Metatron was just a really good Seraph. God is just the Symphony in general, so a Seraph with a sufficiently powerful resonance is literally tapping into the mind of God. 4) Metatron is Kronos. But you already knew that. 5) Metatron was the Voice of God, just like it says on the cover. By killing its Seraphic form Lucifer allowed God to speak through everybody. 6) "The Metatron" was a rotating title among the Seraphic archangels of prehistory. Lucifer was the last to bear it; by pronouncing that he was abandoning it without proclaiming a successor, he "killed" the Metatron. 7) Enoch ascended bodily into Heaven, then travelling backward in time, which transformed him into a Seraph. God is created in 2032 by Vapula, who sends It back in time to create the world; Vapula creates a superior God in 2087 which will go back to obviate the flawed creation of the original and avoid all of this messy sin and War and suffering business, but we're not living in that Symphony because the future has only gotten as far as 2054 so far. 8) Metatron is that which sups the cup of the wrath of God; only its existence prevented the spontaneous emergence of the Malakim, and if its Remnant were to be destroyed, not only all angels but all angels and demons and things in general would become Virtues, and the world would be nothing but hate at its failings, struggling to obliterate itself. 9) Metatron slew Lucifer, then assumed his identity. 10) Metatron slew Lucifer, then assumed his identity. Also the part about Metatron being God. 11) Metatron was the Celestial Jesus just like Jesus was the Corporeal Jesus. Through His death demons have the possibility of redemption. The entry of the pagan gods and urban legends into the Higher Heavens will have to wait for the Ethereal Jesus. |
02-03-2012, 11:12 AM | #3 | |||||
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Freiburg i. Brsg., Germany
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Re: On the Nature of Metatron...
Well, my take on your question might not be as imaginative - and interesting - as Matthias', but I hope I still get a fair hearing. I'll try to adress those questions I think I have an answer to - probably not the answer - each on its own:
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Yves is very...ineffable. He probably knows God's will, but he's all about "the choice to do the right thing". So he's giving cryptic answers, and might even be prone to counter-questions (right word?) like: "So, what do you think is right?" He's nudgeing, not pushing by telling people what they should do. I imagine him to be sometimes a little bit like Sokrates, asking people over and over again until they come up with the right solution themselves. Gabriel is...strange. Her words have to be interpreted. She speaks in metaphors, images (right word?) and maybe incoherently. And she can't just turn to God and ask for His thoughts. Instead, she apparently randomly is touched by Him and tries to express what she sees/hears/feels. That's not a reliable form of communication. Jean knows how the world is built. (If he already knows it all or still gets certain mechanisms revealed my be left aside for the moment.) And he knows when humanity is ready to get another piece of that information, so that it has - in Heaven's eyes - the maximum beneficial effect for the species or even creation as a whole. But this is a very limited field, only concerned with corporeal matters, but not with "right behaviour" and so on. Jean's "communication line" with God is thus much more narrow than Yves' or Gabriel's. I don't know if Raphael had a special "in" with God. I can't remember any canon to allude to this. (And, by the way, I think it's hinted at that Yves and her were more than just Archangels holding Words complementing each other, not Jean.) I don't even know if it would be necessary. Maybe her task was to guard mankind's state of knowledge and to spread it among humanity, but not to actively give them more. That sounds more like Gabriel's, Jean's, Yves' and perhaps Lucifer's job. Personally, I doubt that she was even more in touch with God than your "average" Archangel. But then there was Metatron. The Voice of God. I think he simply could tell the angels straight what God wanted. Like Yves, he could turn to Him and ask for His opinion - or commands - regarding a certain matter. And he'd get an answer that he could understandably and unambiguously communicate to the other angels. I think in the Game Master's Guide or the Angelic Player's Guide it is stated that if God speaks directly, the impact of this event is formidable. Archangels are knocked down to their knees, weeping with joy, perhaps unable to react at once. And that's something He might've wanted to avoid sometimes. (Somehow, this reminds me of Monty Python... ;) ) So Metatron had to be created to have a more "down to earth"-communication with the angels. Metatron also had to talk to humans, I think. Because if His True Voice can knock down Archangels, I think that "mere" humans are quickly - but very happily - sent to Heaven by listening to it. That's avoided by using Metatron. With the death of Metatron, this "straight communication" became impossible. And that's probably a huge blow to the angelic side. But it opens up the question why not simply another one was created. Maybe to honor the first? Or God didn't do it because he decided for Free Will for angels, too, and having His Voice hanging around in Heaven wouldn't help that special cause along... But then, who spoke to Moses from out of the Burning Bush? Who declared Jesus being his son when the latter was baptized (if we have those Biblical events happened in IN)? Whose voice was it that called Uriel to the Higher Heavens and that announced Laurence being an Archangel and Commander-in-Chief of the Hosts of Heaven? Those questions remain, too. Quote:
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I don't think so. He had a single task that didn't need any servitors to be fulfilled better. Quote:
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So, I hope I could help you along, too. With best regards, M.
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"In matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital thing." (Oscar Wilde, "The Importance of Being Earnest" , act 3) |
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02-03-2012, 05:34 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re: On the Nature of Metatron...
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He's presumably already thinking like a Balseraph. So Metatron is the angel who can most directly gainsay him. Yves speaks in questions, Gabriel in metaphors and a Liar can convince everyone else of his own interpretations of those (or, at least, a Liar can convince HIMSELF that he can convince everyone else). Metatron is the one who can point to Lucifer and say "you are a Liar" with the Voice of God. And Balseraphs HATE being caught in a lie. Last edited by gjc8; 02-03-2012 at 05:39 PM. |
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02-04-2012, 11:32 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South of the Town across from the City by the Bay
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Re: On the Nature of Metatron...
I agree with the interpretation about Metatron being the unambiguous Ex Cathedra of God. Everything else, Knowledge, Inspiration (Fire), Destiny, Innovation (Lightning) must be filtered -- requires the Light to be illuminated, if you will. Metatron as the Voice of God, there is no filter, there is just the IS (I AM). Lucifer cannot bear the truth that his light is not needed, that God was correct that mankind is more precious than him and his kind, and that there is an unambiguous answer. Metatron spoke the truth that they are lesser than and no trick of the light can change that fact.
This Truth has been Spoken by the Voice, and it rings in Lucifer's ears to this day. To be told, "I love you second," you can understand the madness that insists instead, "You WILL love me first!" and how important it is to silence the Voice. Rejection... it's hard to be a demon. (It's just an interpretation, but it's the most angst riddled one, therefore the one I currently enjoy most.) |
02-07-2012, 06:13 PM | #6 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Re: On the Nature of Metatron...
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So they assumed he was a Seraph, but it's established Yves was the first soul, and Metatron wasn't among the first seven angels created (at least as far as anyone knew). And no one ever saw it, and I don't think it ever specifically claimed to be an angel of any kind. This gives to me the conception of a sort of speakerphone (or, more belittling to the angels, baby monitor) to God, except it was throughout Heaven and invisible, just audible. It was a disembodied voice, and it spoke clearly and succintly and unambiguously the will of God. If it was disembodied it raises the question of how Lucifer destroyed it, but perhaps it was less of a physical-like destruction (like hacking or shooting or beating it to death) than a mystical ritual, or an obscuring of the Voice. Or Lucifer may not have been special here... maybe the first angel - any angel (or at least one of the originals or Archangels) - that rejected God consciously and willfully would make Metatron recede, as if slain. You could interpret that as God wrathfully abandoning the angels, or God's heart being broken by Its children, or (more brightly) as God breathing a sigh of relief and pride as one of Its childen finally took charge of its own destiny and said "no". Or something else. And of course Metatron being silent (no more Voice) after Lucifer talks with him inevitably sounds like Lucifer killed it. And, in a way, if Metatron is defined as the Voice of God as Manifest in Heaven, then certainly, one way or the other, he kind of did. Although what bugs me are the references to God intervening and seeming to tell the angels unambiguously Its will post-Metatron. In the timeline they note "God lifts the ban on celestial intervention, but insists on subtlety" (italics mine). And the big dog was when God directly intervened at Michael's trial. What did that? Was it a feeling they all had, a fancy light show, divine inspiration... or a voice - a twinkle of Metatron, not dead, just silent until the angels are really about to do something stupid? I also note that even though Metatron still existed in Heaven at that time, it was Yves "that announces that humans are to be left alone, and the corporeal plane is henceforth off limits to angels". Why not Metatron? It's a pretty big policy change, after all, and it caused the Fall (which ironically led to increased and more destructive and farther reaching intervention in corporeal affairs than ever before).
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02-08-2012, 02:07 AM | #7 | |||||
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Freiburg i. Brsg., Germany
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Re: On the Nature of Metatron...
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Regarding the "babyphone": Maybe the disembodied voice was not only a babyphone, but a muffler or something else that interceded between God's True Voice and the angels. (Why am I constantly reminded of Charlie's Angels here?) If you accept the notion that God's True Voice would knock down Archangels weeping in joy - unfortunately, I still don't have the citation -, the use of a "babyphone" makes sense, since it'll mitigate the overwhelming effect of hearing the True Voice. And maybe God didn't want to overawe his angels too much by constantly speaking directly to them. Quote:
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M.
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"In matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital thing." (Oscar Wilde, "The Importance of Being Earnest" , act 3) |
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02-08-2012, 05:10 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Life imitates art--I'm in Pohang
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Re: On the Nature of Metatron...
Wild hair from a sleep-deprived brain...Faith is believing when you've neither seen nor heard. Metatron's silence serves Khalid's Word...hmmmm...
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02-08-2012, 03:36 PM | #9 | |||
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
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Re: On the Nature of Metatron...
Thanks for all the comments, everyone, this has been really interesting for me.
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I think the point made by several people that, whatever his link, Metatron's method of dispensing Truth made him Numero Uno on Lucifer's hitlist--if Metatron had not died, maybe all Metatron would have to do to Redeem all the demons in Hell was to travel down there and say "You are Wrong." And little Luke couldn't have that. JCurwen3, you make a very good point, and I think one essential to understanding Metatron's role, in asking who or what lifted the ban on intervention, pardoned Michael, recalled Uriel, and promoted Laurence. If God spoke those things aloud, how was that not the return of Metatron or at least proof that another Metatronlike being existed? If everyone simply "knew" God's will at those times, why hasn't God said more (there have been other times when knowing God's will might have meant more, such as at the START of the Purity Crusades, the persecution of Gabriel, leading up to the battle with Legion, etc)? Saying that he respects the Free Will of the angels isn't a very satisfactory answer, because he overturned the judgment of the Archangel of Judgment in Michael's Trial and removed Uriel's ability to enact his Will at his Trial. If it wasn't for these exceptions, I would really like the ineffable "God withdrew his Voice to see if his angels would still do the right thing without it" idea proposed by Methariel, since that seems to fit with God's approach to humanity, too. Quote:
In any case, the section of my OP I was most interested in was the very end, about incorporating the mystery of Metatron into modern-time campaigns. Any ideas on that front?
__________________
“The world is going to Hell in a hand-basket, but I’ve got Good News: I saved my soul by switching to Heaven.” —Baruel, former Djinn of the Media, now Cherub of Destiny and the Angel of Good News |
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metatron, theories |
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