Forces and the self

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

Of course, this is something that would probably need to be addressed in Superiors: Christopher, now that I think about it ...

Yes, it is. Somebody really should write that book, now that Ogre is clearing the SJGames pipeline...

[William]

Just to jump in here, anyone with Celestial Forces has a soul, angels, demons and Ethereals included. It's pretty much the definition, and it's why loss of all your Celestial Forces is referred to as soul-death.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by William

Just to jump in here, anyone with Celestial Forces has a soul, angels, demons and Ethereals included. It's pretty much the definition, and it's why loss of all your Celestial Forces is referred to as soul-death.

The question then is whether things that haven't got Celestial Forces can have souls. The obvious answer is that no they haven't, but that precludes animals from having souls, which is contradicted by the descriptions of Jordi's Savannah.

[William]

Animals that make it to the Savannah have manifested a Celestial Force during their life -- or possibly upon death. This is probably entwined with successfully meeting their Destiny. I believe the general idea is that they are unusual members of their species. (If most animals made it to the Savannah, the Savannah would be enormously more populated than the rest of Heaven combined!)

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by William

Animals that make it to the Savannah have manifested a Celestial Force during their life -- or possibly upon death. This is probably entwined with successfully meeting their Destiny. I believe the general idea is that they are unusual members of their species. (If most animals made it to the Savannah, the Savannah would be enormously more populated than the rest of Heaven combined!)

As it is, if I recall correctly, it's already the largest of the Cathedrals. (With, as always, the possible exception of Yves' Library, but that's a very special case.)

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

The question then is whether things that haven't got Celestial Forces can have souls. The obvious answer is that no they haven't, but that precludes animals from having souls, which is contradicted by the descriptions of Jordi's Savannah.

How can cats not have huge amounts of perception? Many animal's willpower is far too obvious to ignore, even in game, without very good celesital-babble.

[William]

In the same way that an ox or elephant can have Strength apparently greater than 12, although the game system is silent on this. (GURPS In Nomine is fine with it, since stats and Forces aren't entwined!) I believe the fanon explanation is that animals are "focused" in a way that humans aren't; their attribute numbers are related to Forces, but not at the same ratios. A cat may not have any Celestial Forces, but it still gets relatively good at making cat decisions and seeing the things important to cats. Think of it as having low Perception in absolute terms (1 or 2) but high situational bonuses to perceive things cats are supposed to be able to perceive.

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by robkelk

Yes, it is. Somebody really should write that book, now that Ogre is clearing the SJGames pipeline...

I frankly don't expect that SJ is going to be interested in looking at IN till after the Car Wars Kickstarter. The garage will still be pretty full even after Ogre moves out.

As for animals... Yeah, there's definitely some handwaving going on, which would logically get explicated in a Jordi writeup. *refers back to first paragraph, wryly* Unless something better showed up, the "animals get different Characteristics-per-Force ratios than humans" idea is definitely being floated. (Another option would be Racial Skills that could go above /6; even if your characteristic is 0, if you racially get skill /8...)

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

I frankly don't expect that SJ is going to be interested in looking at IN till after the Car Wars Kickstarter. The garage will still be pretty full even after Ogre moves out.

Ah, well. Clearing out a cybertank at least creates the perception of elbow room. Now we just need to develop some sharp elbows. :)

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

I frankly don't expect that SJ is going to be interested in looking at IN till after the Car Wars Kickstarter. The garage will still be pretty full even after Ogre moves out.

As for animals... Yeah, there's definitely some handwaving going on, which would logically get explicated in a Jordi writeup. *refers back to first paragraph, wryly* Unless something better showed up, the "animals get different Characteristics-per-Force ratios than humans" idea is definitely being floated. (Another option would be Racial Skills that could go above /6; even if your characteristic is 0, if you racially get skill /8...)

So e.g. cats get a 'Listening' skill at x just for being cats(or celestials in cat vessels) in addition to points/ Perception(for Vessels)?