GURPS Influence Skills: Force Surrender

[MrFix]

Taking a look at Reaction Rolls, Influence Rolls and Reaction table pages of Basic Set, I've arrived to odd conclusions, and I'd love to be fact checked.

Reaction Rolls are made by GM to determine NPC's treatment of PCs. Various modifiers are in place for that.

Influence Rolls are made by PCs to change NPC's treatment of PCs.

Most skills, on success, can only grant Good reaction.
Sex Appeal, on success, grants Very Good reaction.

Situation 1: Cops ambush a crook in an alleyway and order him to surrender, they make their influence roll checks and force a good reaction.

Good reaction:
In apotential combat situation,
the NPCs find the PCs likeable, or
else too formidable to attack. The
PCs may request aid or informa-tion; roll again at +1. (If a fight is in
progress, the NPCs flee.)

I suppose that means the crook wont fight back, and surrender. All good.

Situation 2: Cops are in a firefight with a crook, they make their influence roll checks and force a good reaction.

That means the crook stops fighting and runs, but DOESN'T SURRENDER? That's not good.

Situation 3: Cops are in a firefight with a crook, they make their SEX APPEAL influence roll checks and force a good reaction.

Very Good
In apotential combat situation,
the NPCs are friendly. The PCs may
ask for aid or information (roll
again at +3). Even sworn foes find
an excuse to let the PCs go . . . for
now. (If a fight is in progress, the
NPCs flee if they can, or surrender
otherwise.)

The crook is seduced and, with nowhere to run, surrenders? Super weird.

Situation 4: Cops are in a firefight with a crook, and the crook is losing. GM makes a Combat Morale check, and reaction is Good.

When NPCs are losing a fight, the
GM can make a combat reaction roll
duringthe fight as a “morale check.” A
“Good” or higher reaction indicates
flight or surrender, as appropriate –
not sudden friendship.

Crook is disillusioned and, with nowhere to run, surrenders. All good, but it doesn't make a mention of influence rolls, only reaction rolls.

Conclusion: To force a crook to surrender, cops must

1) Ambush the crook and roll influence rolls before combat begins to prevent the fight and force surrender.
2) In a fight with a crook, start winning and hope that the crook fails his Morale check.
3) In a fight with a crook, start using sex appeal, forcing a very good reaction that includes surrender.

Did I get it all right? Does that make any sense? Should cops have Sex Appeal on their templates?

[whswhs]

Well, in the first place, as the GM, I get to decide if any of the cops is someone the crook might even potentially find sexually appealing. I think the odds are kind of poor. In the second place, the attempt to use Sex Appeal has to be roleplayed in a way that's appropriate to the situation; if it's not it's at a (possibly HUGE) penalty. Can you describe to me how you envision a cop using sex appeal here?

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Can you describe to me how you envision a cop using sex appeal here?

Not and maintain a PG rating, no.

I'm in agreement that this doesn't seem like a logical use of the skill. I could not see, during a standoff, an effective and legal way to utilize Sex Appeal. And I'm a pervert.

During an interrogation, sure. One of the hostages, sure. During the standoff, while they're shooting . . . no.

[David Johnston2]

Well part of the problem is that reaction rolls are quick and influence skills aren't. You need time to talk and gesture. You can have time to talk before the fight starts, but not so much in the middle of a firefight.

[MrFix]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Well part of the problem is that reaction rolls are quick and influence skills aren't. You need time to talk and gesture. You can have time to talk before the fight starts, but not so much in the middle of a firefight.

GURPS book suggests to not limit talking beyond a free action, unless super abused. Concentrate maneuver to make an influence check seems appropriate unless there's an explicit 'it takes this much time' rule.

As for how it'll look... Strike a pose, utter something like "Why fight when we can do something else" and other such elements of Sex Appeal skill. There are penalties for inappropriate skill chosen for situation, but they're that - penalties, you can overcome them.

B359
-1 to -10 for using an
inappropriate Influence skill (GM’s
decision)

[AlexanderHowl]

Influence skills are also resistance by Will (and Indomitable characters cannot be influenced except by characters with the appropriate Empathy), so they are less flexible than reaction rolls. One thing to consider about influence skills is that NPCs are capable of using them on PCs to inflict penalties on their actions. For example, a sexy NPC criminal could use Sex Appeal to distract PC cops while her friends are getting into position (inflicting a penalty to Sense rolls to notice her friends and a penalty to detect that she is lying about surrendering).

Sex Appeal is probably the most powerful influence skill against people attracted to their race and gender combination. With HT 14, Allure 4, Appearance (Very Beautiful), and Voice, a sexy NPC could have have Sex Appeal-28 (!!!) for 8 CP (with a total build cost of 94 CP). If trying to influence a PC who possesses a Will 14, she will inflict an average of -14 in penalties on her target. Unless the character is quite capable, her target will be incapable of noticing anything else or detecting her lies.

[MrFix]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Influence skills are also resistance by Will (and Indomitable characters cannot be influenced except by characters with the appropriate Empathy), so they are less flexible than reaction rolls. One thing to consider about influence skills is that NPCs are capable of using them on PCs to inflict penalties on their actions. For example, a sexy NPC criminal could use Sex Appeal to distract PC cops while her friends are getting into position (inflicting a penalty to Sense rolls to notice her friends and a penalty to detect that she is lying about surrendering).

Sex Appeal is probably the most powerful influence skill against people attracted to their race and gender combination. With HT 14, Allure 4, Appearance (Very Beautiful), and Voice, a sexy NPC could have have Sex Appeal-28 (!!!) for 8 CP (with a total build cost of 94 CP). If trying to influence a PC who possesses a Will 14, she will inflict an average of -14 in penalties on her target. Unless the character is quite capable, her target will be incapable of noticing anything else or detecting her lies.

Think that's applicable for forcing somebody to surrender mid-fight? That's what I'm trying to figure out - reliable and rules appropriate ways to make enemies/criminals surrender to arrest/capture when prompted, via Influence Rolls.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by MrFix

Think that's applicable for forcing somebody to surrender mid-fight? That's what I'm trying to figure out - reliable and rules appropriate ways to make enemies/criminals surrender to arrest/capture when prompted, via Influence Rolls.

Mid-fight Intimidation seems the best bet, with Fast-Talk an ok fallback.
A couple of Perks help too. Most people cops will encounter wont have strong wills or Combat Reflexes.

[MrFix]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Mid-fight Intimidation seems the best bet, with Fast-Talk an ok fallback.
A couple of Perks help too. Most people cops will encounter wont have strong wills or Combat Reflexes.

The first post outlines why GURPS, RAW, doesn't support intimidation to force surrender.

Intimidation can only improve reaction to Good, but Very Good is required for definite surrender. At Good, they stop fighting and flee.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by MrFix

The first post outlines why GURPS, RAW, doesn't support intimidation to force surrender.

Intimidation can only improve reaction to Good, but Very Good is required for definite surrender. At Good, they stop fighting and flee.

I think thats appropriate and the most common reaction. However if they cant flee there likely to surrender