06-23-2017, 06:48 PM | #11 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Shoreline, WA (north of Seattle)
|
Re: Cost of Living and Governance
Quote:
Look at it another way. Suppose we have a trader of the same period and of great wealth. How much of his CoL goes into his trading business and how much is consumed by him personally? He employs servants, dancers, and other staff; he employs agents and factors to conduct business; he owns ships and caravans. At any point, any one of those things can cross the line from part of his business to his own personal consumption, or back again. Anyway, my answer would be: As much of the monarch's cost of living goes to governance as needs to, or he ceases to be a monarch. How much that is depends on the political system, situation, and his own skill at politics, finance, and war. A border prince on the edge of the Orclands might spend most of his COL on military power; a decadent baron in the heart of the capital might burn most of his on elaborate parties (that also prop up the connections that keep him in power). |
|
08-29-2018, 09:42 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
|
Re: Cost of Living and Governance
I'd like to resurrect this topic. B266 states a status 7 or 8 person pay for a full wardrobe at table levels but when buying one outfit you treat higher status than 3 as status 3.
If cost of living makes an exception in clothing for people with high status, is it reasonable to extrapolate a status 8 person would pay status 3 cost of living with the remainder of the cost of living going to the employment and maintenance of a government? We need to consider the B265 example however. I'm with the author regarding a status 1 person enjoying the perks of status 7 but with the state paying the difference. The the last sentence says a person wanting to live in a presidential style must pay status 7 cost of living. That doesn't directly conflict with B266 but it's not exactly clear. What do you think? T |
08-29-2018, 10:48 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Sep 2011
|
Re: Cost of Living and Governance
Quote:
The only time it would make sense to use it as an extrapolation would be in a case where the item in question tops out before reaching the Status involved. For example, if individual cars topped out at Status 5 and a person of Status 7 simply had multiple cars, it would make sense in that case to say that to make a sudden purchase of one car, a status 7 person only needs to pay the cost of a Status 5 car, but his cost of living pays the full amount of Status 7 for his cars because he is assumed to own multiple cars. Likewise the example on B265 is clear. If you're Status 1 Joe Blow from Kokomo and get elected Status 7 President of the U.S.A., the government will pick up the tab for the difference between your normal Cost of Living and the Cost of Living of your elected office. It doesn't note this, but that's a feature of being the U.S. President. It wouldn't apply in a country where being Status 7 President of the planet Mongo is an elective office but you're expected to be able to be president out of your own pocket and the government doesn't pick up the tab for the difference. OTOH, if you're Status 5 Bill Gates, you can live in the same style as the President of the United States, but you're not filling a position where the government has a vested interest in keeping you from looking shabby, so you have to pay for everything associated with your lifestyle out of your own pocket. Last edited by Curmudgeon; 08-29-2018 at 12:24 PM. |
|
08-29-2018, 02:15 PM | #14 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
|
Re: Cost of Living and Governance
Quote:
And there's a real problem in a TL 3 culture in separating personal living expenses from governmental expenses. State dinners are important to the business of government. But they also feed the Emperor. The Imperial Palace contains important functionaries and their offices. But it's also the Emperor's house. The Emperor can't take a vacation without a figurative army of attendants and an actual army of guardsmen. In modern times heads of states have a lot of these covered by their state because they have imputed status from rank but at TL 3 the Emperor actually personally owns all that stuff and pays for those events. It's his money when he erects statues of himself all over the country even if he's getting it from taxing hte people. Last edited by David Johnston2; 08-30-2018 at 10:27 AM. |
|
08-29-2018, 04:05 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
|
Re: Cost of Living and Governance
Some googling shows that for the 2014 Oscar awards Cate Blanchett if you include dress, shoes, jewelry etc. was wearing over $18 million. The dress was only $100,000 of that. Mens clothing in the current day is cheaper but the most expensive custom suit maker has a $75,000 suit.
|
08-29-2018, 04:12 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
|
Re: Cost of Living and Governance
|
08-29-2018, 08:07 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
|
Re: Cost of Living and Governance
True, that's why I mentioned separately the dress cost. And for that kind of dress and event there is a good possibility that it will never be worn to another event. But if she spends half that on less prestigious events and has 4-5 a year that's $200,000 a year for clothing. Men are cheaper you can wear the same suit many times. But for a high status family going through a quarter million a year between parent s and older kids is not unbelievable.
|
08-29-2018, 09:33 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
|
Re: Cost of Living and Governance
Well, we should also remember that GURPS $ are 1985 $, not 2018 $, and the 1985 $ possessed the same purchasing power as 2018 $2.20 (or more, depending on your definition). In many ways, the USA is not that much wealthier than we were in 1985, median household income is actually lower when adjusted for inflation, it is just that our money is worth only 45% so we think that we are doing better.
|
08-29-2018, 10:59 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Jan 2014
|
Re: Cost of Living and Governance
Quote:
1) While cost of living was mostly the same between 3e and 4e, there were some changes, mainly on the higher end of the scale. 2) The numbers don't even pass the smell test in 1985. HUD statistics indicate that the monthly housing costs in 1985 were about $670. This doesn't fit with the cost of living listed at all. The only conclusion you can draw is that GURPS $ is GURPS $. Using current catalogs and their prices can be done, but may need tweaking to match the smell test. |
|
08-30-2018, 08:55 AM | #20 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
|
Re: Cost of Living and Governance
Wonderful discussion. Your comments about the reason for the limitation of fashion were happily received. I just noted food is also limited up to status 3. We also find it in accommodations. Everywhere we look, typical costs do not exceed status 3. So how do we justify the cost of living for status 4 and higher?
Remember the cost of living is the typical expenses for one month. If your sundries are capped at status 3 because we've maxed out the quality of common items, I'm finding the idea of spending $720 million yearly on typical expenses for Status 7 difficult to swallow. If it has to be a quirk of the system in order for GURPS to function with their wealth rules, I understand that limitation, but the above makes no sense to me. That was a great comment about Cate Blanchett. I know a lot of those items are on loan but that pricing has helped to ground me. We come back to the question of governance because B265 says the cost of living also includes servants at Status 1 or greater. An army of servants with wages could explain the operation of the state at Status 7 at a TL 3 level. The examples on B266 are lousy with examples of staff (particularly bodyguards for some reason) being paid out of cost of living. This is why I think high status cost of living must include the wages of staff, and thus governance. David Johnston2, your point about the difficulties of a TL 3 government are well taken. I think the answer is to accept the combination of the two. I see no problem with a king paying for his courtiers and his statues, and taking all the taxes for himself. Last edited by tetrahedron; 08-30-2018 at 09:27 AM. Reason: More comments |
Tags |
cost of living, status, wealth |
|
|