Being Scary with Wimps

[Kalzazz]

So what are good ways to make say a numerically rich force of relatively weak foes (say orks) properly worthy?

[Kromm]

Just about everything on pp. 6-7 of Monsters seems applicable. A few ideas:

Surprise. There's no reason why the PCs must always be better than the monsters at Stealth and detection! Give the monsters an arbitrary bonus because they know their home, or have them buried in the sand or whatever and explode into sight on all sides; set things up so that the heroes have to live with penalties to Sense rolls, not just from darkness (easily negated), but also due to things like mist, smoke, noisy mining machinery, and dazzling lights reflected from cave ponds; and it's logical for real wimps simply to be good at Stealth. Put alcoves, arrow slits, murder holes, etc. behind or above the entrance to the area. At least some monsters will get attacks from surprise or behind, against which there's no defense.

Traps and Barricades. In the monsters' home, they'll have defenses. In combat, traps hidden on the battlefield are hard to see (Exploits, p. 58); a few simple ST 16 leg-hold traps (Adventurers, p. 114) will make life tough for most delvers, and pits are even nastier. Barriers like palisades, elevated archery platforms, and moats can let the wimps get a lot of shots at heroes who have to waste time avoiding, climbing, or chopping or burning down these things; the monsters needn't be champion archers, as even heavy rocks can hurt, and barrels of flaming oil require no skill at all to use.

Swarm Attacks. If the monsters are truly numerous and hateful, they might attack in a fanatical, screaming wave. I'm not talking about two or three times as many as there are delvers . . . I'm talking about so many that the battle map is awash in figures. Some will get behind the heroes and get free shots. Others will try slams or grapples, and a few will succeed by sheer force of numbers; then those PCs are fighting multiple foes in close combat, or on the ground, or both. Just the simple expedient of several ranks of foes with polearms, long spears, pikes, etc. doing All-Out Attack (Double) can be scary – it's quite possible for adventurers with a tight front and no exposed back to each face six, eight, or more attacks this way!

Casters. Wimps can still have shamans, witch doctors, or whatever. These casters don't need amazing, high-powered spells to complicate the heroes' lives. Create Fire, Glue, Grease, etc. can be the second spell a wizardly caster with Magery 0 learns; for a better caster, that could be Mystic Mist. Those with clerical or druidic spells don't even need to be fair . . . rule that their gods grant whatever Area spell fits the situation. And if the PCs are the home invaders, the casters are likely to have already cast these spells to aid their allies.

All of this stuff could apply at once, too.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Casters. Wimps can still have shamans, witch doctors, or whatever. These casters don't need amazing, high-powered spells to complicate the heroes' lives. Create Fire, Glue, Grease, etc. can be the second spell a wizardly caster with Magery 0 learns.

I've had success with Itch and Spasm, too. If the orc wizard invests enough points to boost their skill above typical PC HT scores, they have a good chance of affecting them. Itch on an armored foe is a decent debuff. Spasm on the hand is brutal. We had a great moment in my first DFRPG campaign where the orc witch doctor managed to cause the PC caster to drop a maxed out explosive missile.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Dalin

I've had success with Itch and Spasm, too. If the orc wizard invests enough points to boost their skill above typical PC HT scores, they have a good chance of affecting them. Itch on an armored foe is a decent debuff. Spasm on the hand is brutal. We had a great moment in my first DFRPG campaign where the orc witch doctor managed to cause the PC caster to drop a maxed out explosive missile.

Did "Tickle" made it in to the DFRPG? Because it's 60 seconds of inactivity, and you die embarrassed that you're on the ground giggling like a toddler as you get eaten.

[Anthony]

Sometimes, the problem may just be that you aren't being sufficiently numerically rich, though the number of orcs required to actually be a threat to even starting delvers is large enough to turn into a tedious grind.

[thrash]

Tucker's Kobolds -- always a classic.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Traps and Barricades. In the monsters' home, they'll have defenses.

Creatures smaller than human-sized (or just not wearing armor) can use narrow passages to out-maneuver the party and eventually escape. The Viet Cong used water troughs (like the p-trap in a sink) to isolate sections of tunnel, which could then be filled with smoke or poison gas, or just evacuated of oxygen.

Don't forget the effect of low ceilings! If the party has to duck or crawl under, they are vulnerable -- and there's no cover to hide behind, unlike barricades or piles of debris on the floor.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Did "Tickle" made it in to the DFRPG? Because it's 60 seconds of inactivity, and you die embarrassed that you're on the ground giggling like a toddler as you get eaten.

Tickle did make it into DFRPG. Only downsides are that it is expensive and requires concentration.

Giving mook casters the ability to cast from hidden locations can be great, too. I've occasionally had casters hidden above ceilings, behind illusionary walls, or under grates. They can often get off quite a few aggravating spells before the PCs figure out where they are.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Sometimes, the problem may just be that you aren't being sufficiently numerically rich, though the number of orcs required to actually be a threat to even starting delvers is large enough to turn into a tedious grind.

Yeah, I love the idea of hordes, but I have trouble keeping things moving fast enough for them to be much fun.

[tbone]

I've always enjoyed this business of making "weak" foes powerful, instead of just coming up with increasingly exotic, super-powered foes to challenge PCs.

When designing scenarios like this, just start with one question: In a dungeon with demons and mindflayers and bone-melting slimes, how has this band of delicious hobgoblins (or whatever) managed to survive for so long?

The answer, of course, is everything people have said so far: fortified defenses, lookouts, tactics, traps, hideouts, deals with other monsters, etc. etc. Still, I find that asking the above question gets the ideas flowing.

Worth noting: Even foes with limited intelligence can have really fiendish surprises in store for PCs, just by spending lots of time honing those defenses and tactics. (When the PCs inevitably disrupt those surprisingly clever plans, though, the slow-witted foes will struggle to adapt. That's the fun stuff. : )

Also: Just a personal observation, but it seems to me that the sort of "weak" foes (horde or otherwise) discussed here often end up as particularly memorable encounters. The kobold gang that fights dirty is a lot more relatable than the boss monster with the 10d death ray, and can generate actual respect from players.

So, yeah. Hordes can challenging to GM (for reasons including speed of play, as Dalin notes), but played smart, they make for good encounters.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Dalin

We had a great moment in my first DFRPG campaign where the orc witch doctor managed to cause the PC caster to drop a maxed out explosive missile.

Just in general: It's a useful campaign assumption to have everybody with IQ 6+ in a magical game world know what Missile spells are, be able identify general types (fire, ice, lightning, etc.) at a glance, be aware that bigger is badder, and have some idea about what happens when one is fumbled. Then have them act on that knowledge!

Thus, if PC wizards want to cast at camp, rest, and carry around a "free" 18d spell – fine! But if combat starts suddenly and they have Basic Speed 6.00 while the skittering-scamp baddies have Basic Speed 6.25, they may end up making several Will rolls to avoid having their own missile affect them. And if that missile is an explosive one, it'll be affecting the other PCs, too.

Originally Posted by thrash

Creatures smaller than human-sized (or just not wearing armor) can use narrow passages to out-maneuver the party and eventually escape.

This is always a good one. It's especially applicable to big spiders, doomchildren, giant rats, horde pygmies, ice weasels, and kroa-kroa, all of whom are the sorts of things that skitter around in ground-bound hordes. Things that tunnel have a similar edge – tomb bugs are awful this way. Also, water serves the same purpose against groups that can't swim as easily as they can walk – leaping leeches suddenly become scary.

Originally Posted by Dalin

Tickle did make it into DFRPG. Only downsides are that it is expensive and requires concentration.

Interestingly, these somewhat cancel out: If a caster is going to cast once and concentrate for the rest of the fight, they don't need that much energy. And a squishy goblin witch-doctor is probably more useful putting a magical "pin" on a scary warrior with high ST, high skill, and multiple attacks – but only Will 10 (Tickle is a rare Body Control spell resisted by Will, not HT!) – than fighting.

Originally Posted by Dalin

Yeah, I love the idea of hordes, but I have trouble keeping things moving fast enough for them to be much fun.

This is pretty much what "And Stay Down!" (Exploits, p. 86) was designed for. Combining that with All-Out Attack (Double) can be very interesting. It results in hordes that mostly get destroyed quickly, yet with enough lucky shots that the heroes have to worry.

Also, you can use an interesting variant on "And Stay Down!" with critters that grapple: In general, they call for "between a 1-HP tap and a major wound" to put down, like any other fodder . . . but fodder that succeed at grappling a hero are heartened and thus less likely to "cower, play dead, flee, or surrender." Those ones call for "between 0 HP and -1×HP," like worthy monsters – or even "fight to negative HP and attempt all their HT rolls," like bosses.

Originally Posted by tbone

Worth noting: Even foes with limited intelligence can have really fiendish surprises in store for PCs, just by spending lots of time honing those defenses and tactics.

Yes. In the real world, troops in defensive positions spend a lot of their time "improving" the defenses, if only by adding more berms and trenches.

To reflect this in the game, just let monsters who've been in the same place for a long time "take +5" for Time Spent (Exploits, p. 6). They get +5 on all rolls against skills like Observation, Stealth, Tactics, and Traps in the specific situation where they're defending home ground. This reflects having optimally placed sentries, knowing exactly which floorboards creak, spending endless time working on their covered pits, painting white ranging stripes on their side of objects along the approaches, etc.

With this, even IQ 7 dinomen can be somewhat effective, and militant races like orcs – who actually improve their skills at this kind of stuff – can be rather scary.