02-20-2020, 03:26 PM | #11 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Carrboro, NC
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Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength
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I was looking at: Hatchet St 9 = 1d War Axe ST 12 = 2d Battle Axe ST 15=3d War Daddy Axe ST 18 = 4d. ETA: I should have used a different name in the earlier post. I forgot "War Axe" was already used. Last edited by tomc; 02-20-2020 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Clarity |
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02-20-2020, 10:01 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength
If you poke around the House Rules threads a bit you'll find a link to a google doc I posted, containing stats for a bunch of other weapons that are generally consistent with the pattern in RAW. It includes a few 'big versions' of familiar things (though nothing intended for giants; I suggest an easily recipe for those is just club damage +1, which won't be too far off).
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02-20-2020, 10:48 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength
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e.g. the ST 30 weapon at that rate would do 8d, averaging 28 points, instead of the Melee Giant Club at ST 30 3d+3, or the RAW ST 31 Maul at 2d+5. My own house rule / table wound up with a ST 30-31 giant using a 2-handed sword/axe at 5d+2, so average 19.5. Hmm. |
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02-21-2020, 05:16 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Carrboro, NC
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Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength
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But you could also throw in the notion that a giant is not a scaled up human, different physiologies mean giants aren't as good with human style weapons. They have the DX limitation for a reason. And a lot of their ST represents structure, not muscle. While the above might provide a justification for the GM to do what they please, not that they need it, I think your idea of giants not killing each other with swords in one blow is the most compelling. Then again, is the ST stat for humans linear at these high levels? Last edited by tomc; 02-21-2020 at 05:24 AM. |
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02-21-2020, 10:04 AM | #15 |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength
Human melee damage compared to the wielder's ST is linear in the ST 8 to 13 range, or in the 8 to 16 range IF you ignore the need to start using 2-handed weapons at ST 14.
Below ST 8, the damage is flat (dagger, no minST, 1d-1) and lethality (attacks needed to kill your twin) therefore actually goes UP with lower ST. At ST 17-20, melee damage seems stuck at 3d+1 because there are no larger weapons to use (though in theory they might be possible to design & build - they're just not listed). At ST 21-30, melee damage using a club starts shallowly increasing (+1 per +5 ST) so that using a 1-handed club does more damage than a bastard sword, up to as much damage as a battleaxe (but at 1d+7 vs 3d - same average, higher minimum, less maximum). At ST 30+, melee damage continues to increase even more shallowly (+1 pet +10 ST!) and clubs now do more damage than greatswords. (And ST 30 dragons do the melee damage of a ST 10 human . . . so yes, physiology matters, and ST of TFT monsters tends to be about how hard they are to kill, not how much damage they do . . . and also, dragons do a lot less damage than they probably logically should do for their size, for "balance" reasons rather than logic reasons.) Last edited by Skarg; 02-21-2020 at 10:08 AM. |
02-21-2020, 11:27 AM | #17 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength
Lesser Demons might be the extreme example of low damage at high ST: Their bare handed (pawed? tentacled?) attack does 2d, at a ST score of 50.
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02-21-2020, 12:06 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
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Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength
I had to house rule that to show why demons don't carry clubs.
https://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rules.html#demons
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02-21-2020, 12:15 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength
Actually, I made a BIG mistake on the last part. At ST 41+, the increment is every 10 ST, but the damage increase per increment is +1 DIE, not +1, so that averages +3.5 per +10 ST, which is actually steeper than the increases from 17-40, which vary from +1 per 5 to +1 per 3.
So, it's weird. Quote:
The 4d damage of a full Demon is also much weaker than the table would indicate - it'd be 8d+1, or 9d+1 at ST 101. Or, maybe that indicates what tomc and I were saying about TFT monster ST - it represents how hard they are to kill, but isn't necessarily how strong their attacks are. So a demon doing 2d with bare hands, depending on whether they get any talent or talon bonuses, probably has arm strength in the 21 to 30 range according to the unarmed combat damage table. A full demon doing 4d with claws probably has arm ST 41 to 50 judging by that table. |
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02-21-2020, 02:21 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength
I'm not super stressed about it the reason why one creature gets the human unarmed damage table and another doesn't. But it is something you definitely have to think through when you design new monsters, as the choice will substantially impact how dangerous they are.
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