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Old 06-23-2022, 07:03 AM   #41
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: when is there HP damage for avoiding urination (Quick and Dirty Enchantment)

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Price goes up exponentially, past 100 it's cheaper to chug paut than to use increasingly large stones, and a 1,000 energy enchantment winds up at around 30k (which is better than 33k for S&S, but probably not enough better to bother creating the circle).

I didn't model the effects of mana levels; if you have access to high or very high mana warehouses, you reduce base rental cost by 50 or 75%, but then have to add an additional charge for the fact it's probably more expensive to rent space in high or very high mana areas (if it's an extra dollar a day in high mana, you want to use a high mana warehouse above 250 energy).
High or Very High Mana areas would probably become "Wizard Towers". Since those areas are probably restricted in size, no more than a few square meters (or square yards), it would be good to build a tower in order to maximize it's use! So you would display your Powerstones vertically in it so that they can be enoughly further apart to recharge, instead of doing it horizontally.

That also fits with the fabled steriotype of the "Wizard Towers", so that's a nice lore bonus for the world design!
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Old 06-23-2022, 01:24 PM   #42
Plane
 
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Default Re: when is there HP damage for avoiding urination (Quick and Dirty Enchantment)

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There are tricks involving paut that significantly alter this, but unless you're allowing paut talismans it's generally not worthwhile.
do you think the suggested limit on how much Paut you could safely drink per day (ie limiting bonus energy from potion supplements) would apply to the talisman version?
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Old 06-23-2022, 08:33 PM   #43
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Default Re: when is there HP damage for avoiding urination (Quick and Dirty Enchantment)

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do you think the suggested limit on how much Paut you could safely drink per day (ie limiting bonus energy from potion supplements) would apply to the talisman version?
Limit Paut is 6xST (Thaumatology 54). So it would be an average of 60 extra energy/day. Still, Paut is too expensive for using for Q&D, althought it might serve for very wealthy clients looking for more powerful items. With 60 Paut/day, the amount of energy goes up to 160/Mage, that gives for a 20 skill master with 5 helpers 960 max energy in a day, but that means going over the 8 hours of work per day, which would bring penalties. So, with just a little of Paut, it's possible to reach to max 800 energy for Q&D.

Any more than that can only be done with S&S, and items done with that would take years or require circles with hundreds of Mages working for a few months in a single item, costing a fortune.

What would it be the Talisman version you're refering?
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Old 06-23-2022, 08:43 PM   #44
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: when is there HP damage for avoiding urination (Quick and Dirty Enchantment)

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Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
What would it be the Talisman version you're refering?
Alchemical Charms (Magic 220) allow making reusable potions at 10x time and cost. This is... extremely abusable for enchantment purposes, as they can be used hundreds of times per year.
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Old 06-23-2022, 09:10 PM   #45
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Default Re: when is there HP damage for avoiding urination (Quick and Dirty Enchantment)

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Alchemical Charms (Magic 220) allow making reusable potions at 10x time and cost. This is... extremely abusable for enchantment purposes, as they can be used hundreds of times per year.
As in, making a "Paut Talisman"? Oh boy, we are pretty munchikining today, arent we?

I dont know if that's possible thou, Paut is described in Thaumatology (not Magic), and it is exclusively a liquid... It needs to be drank to have it's effects. I dont know if it can be turned into a Talisman. What would it even be? A sort of "mana battery"?

Besides, I dont know if you could count such a Talisman as simply "Paut"; if it is simply supplying you extra energy, I would count it as an "alternative Powerstone", and only allow a person to use one or another - since you can only use one power source at a time for a single purpose.

On the other hand, you could say that instead of serving as an external power source, what it does is regenerate your own reserves - just like liquid Paut does, which is fair enough.

Even if this item were to work as regular liquid Paut... Then we would have to submit it to the same rules, thus it only supplies 6xST at most per day - which would not be cummulative with liquid Paut.

As been abusable well... I love me some Munchkinism so... I would allow it - but Im a crazy GM!
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Old 06-23-2022, 10:03 PM   #46
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Default Re: when is there HP damage for avoiding urination (Quick and Dirty Enchantment)

Note that, even without paut talismans, paut is useful up to a certain point; while it isn't cheaper than slow and sure, combining it with Q&D can still be cheaper. Then again, if you're allowing alternate energy sources, Raise Cone of Power basically allows applying unskilled observers to Q&D enchanting. It's hard to use above 500 energy (for which you spend three hours on raise cone with 84 participants, then five hours on the Q&D; to get 600 you need to do it in two hours and thus 150 participants)
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Old 06-24-2022, 10:18 AM   #47
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Default Re: when is there HP damage for avoiding urination (Quick and Dirty Enchantment)

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Note that, even without paut talismans, paut is useful up to a certain point; while it isn't cheaper than slow and sure, combining it with Q&D can still be cheaper. Then again, if you're allowing alternate energy sources, Raise Cone of Power basically allows applying unskilled observers to Q&D enchanting. It's hard to use above 500 energy (for which you spend three hours on raise cone with 84 participants, then five hours on the Q&D; to get 600 you need to do it in two hours and thus 150 participants)
Im not sure that many people would be cheaper than S&S thou

Paut Talismans however would indeed make Q&D cheaper, but the hard limit of 800 energy remains
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Old 06-26-2022, 02:41 AM   #48
Plane
 
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Default Re: when is there HP damage for avoiding urination (Quick and Dirty Enchantment)

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I dont know if that's possible thou, Paut is described in Thaumatology (not Magic), and it is exclusively a liquid... It needs to be drank to have it's effects.
That could be said of many of the elixirs which are assumed to have talisman versions.
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