Ogre 6th Edition vs. bi-pedal battle mecha...

[SudsySutherland]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Battletech.jpg

Just a quick fan gag strip of why giant self aware cyber tanks are superior to bipedal battle mecha (well, if the scale of the two game systems is considered along with the casual slinging around of nukes, and the inherent weakness of the bipedal knee joint....).

Deviant Art (for better resolution): http://sudsysutherland.deviantart.co...echa-310759748

[HeatDeath]

Awesome. I lol'd. :D

As a Battletech fan, I have to quibble, but only a little. Battlemechs are 10-12 meters tall, and a Mark V, as far asI remember, is only about 15 meters tall at the mast. So the Ogre wouldn't be THAT big relative to the mechs.

But yeah, the central point is entirely correct. Since Battlemechs lack BPC armor, a 4 minute shelling from a single Ogre's secondary gun would auto kill any Battletech-universe units in the hex.

If I had to represent Battlemechs as Ogre units, they'd be 0 or 1 defense, 1/1 units, but with decent mobility. Basically high speed infantry, at only 10-100x the cost :)

Now a Battlemech with BPC armor, slinging Alamos (Btech-universe tacnukes) around, that would start to look like a more-mobile Heavy Tank or Missile Tank. The mobility gain vs. Ogre-verse armor is very expensive though. Would you pay 10x the cost for a Heavy Tank to give it an extra movement point or two?

[SudsySutherland]

Originally Posted by HeatDeath

Awesome. I lol'd. :D

As a Battletech fan, I have to quibble, but only a little. Battlemechs are 10-12 meters tall, and a Mark V, as far asI remember, is only about 15 meters tall at the mast. So the Ogre wouldn't be THAT big relative to the mechs.

But yeah, the central point is entirely correct. Since Battlemechs lack BPC armor, a 4 minute shelling from a single Ogre's secondary gun would auto kill any Battletech-universe units in the hex.

If I had to represent Battlemechs as Ogre units, they'd be 0 or 1 defense, 1/1 units, but with decent mobility. Basically high speed infantry, at only 10-100x the cost :)

Now a Battlemech with BPC armor, slinging Alamos (Btech-universe tacnukes) around, that would start to look like a more-mobile Heavy Tank or Missile Tank. The mobility gain vs. Ogre-verse armor is very expensive though. Would you pay 10x the cost for a Heavy Tank to give it an extra movement point or two?

Strangely enough, somehow I missed the 15 meter at the mast height for the Mk V... Somewhere I've read it, but forgot it. For that I kinda feel bad... Sorta... This being a gag strip... Perhaps this is a rare Mk VI or theorized MK VII?! Something made to take on a Bolo... After all, it probably isn't with the two 'Mechs present... But then, this is now fleshing out a gag strip too far!

Bi-peds would certainly be far too expensive beyond the exo-suit armor concept! Why waste computer brain resources, better put to use targeting and blowing stuff up, keeping a warmachine upright? That and the armor would likely kill any major increase in mobility unless it was only done lightly in the manner of a GEV... Still, you get too little for the investment! Treads or Ground Effect are the way to go beyond infantry!

[FireHorse]

Originally Posted by SudsySutherland

Bi-peds would certainly be far too expensive beyond the exo-suit armor concept! Why waste computer brain resources, better put to use targeting and blowing stuff up, keeping a warmachine upright?

And if you were going to make walkers of some kind, you'd be much better off doing six-legged rather than two. Think about the size of the gyros necessary to keep a two-legger from falling over while it takes each step. Then look at any six-legged bug — during movement, three legs remain down while the other three move. That's a much more stable platform.

[Thirdpower]

Almost makes me wish I would have dropped for another KS sheet and done Cyberwalkers.

[Macunaima]

Bringing a new definition to the term "Knee-capping"...

[HeatDeath]

Originally Posted by SudsySutherland

Bi-peds would certainly be far too expensive beyond the exo-suit armor concept! Why waste computer brain resources, better put to use targeting and blowing stuff up, keeping a warmachine upright? That and the armor would likely kill any major increase in mobility unless it was only done lightly in the manner of a GEV... Still, you get too little for the investment! Treads or Ground Effect are the way to go beyond infantry!

In the Battletech universe battlemechs have a huge advantage that conventional armor simply cannot match - strategic mobility. A company of battlemechs can cross a thousand km of utter wilderness as fast or faster than an armor company could make the same trip by road. This is very important in a universe where you are very frequently invading planets that consist of 2-3 major population centers separated by a few thousand km of prairies, forest, or mountains, with no roads, or even trails connecting them.

Also, along the "invading planets" theme, they can drop from orbit and fight the instant they touch down, and they are the most powerful and flexible armor units available, which is important when your invasion dropships are tightly limited in how many discrete units they can transport.

Even at the end of the Last War, Earth still has more than enough highways and passable roads to make the battlemech's strategic mobility expensively redundant, and laser towers and anti-orbit defences make attack-via-orbital-drop a suicidal gamble, so that capability is unneeded too.

Agreed. Very little room for mecha in the world of the Last War. They do have strengths, but those strengths are basically unneeded.

[HeatDeath]

Originally Posted by FireHorse

And if you were going to make walkers of some kind, you'd be much better off doing six-legged rather than two. Think about the size of the gyros necessary to keep a two-legger from falling over while it takes each step. Then look at any six-legged bug — during movement, three legs remain down while the other three move. That's a much more stable platform.

As they say on the Battletech forums, "Battletech is the future of the '80s." Giant gyros was their best guess as to how giant mecha would stand up, but they didn't have a decade or two of research into dynamic balancing robotics: e.g. Segways and Asimos.

With fast enough microcontrollers (and they can be a separate subsystem that doesn't use the computing resources of the Ogre brain) you can keep anything upright. The question is: does being upright buy you anything?

[GrauGeist]

Originally Posted by HeatDeath

does being upright buy you anything?

You can see farther, like a spotter in a crow's nest - in a direct fire battle, height is of some advantage.

And you traverse slightly uneven ground somewhat more efficiently, being able to "run" via a well-controlled, continuous fall.

[SudsySutherland]

Originally Posted by GrauGeist

You can see farther, like a spotter in a crow's nest - in a direct fire battle, height is of some advantage.

Being able to see further can be a two edged sword... That also means something can see you and shoot back as well... Ogre towers, and the sensor package on the Light Tank make more sense, put something expendable up so that if you lose it you don't lose everything!

Aesthetically, the Mech's are far more 'relatable' and easier to anthropomorphize. Hence Mecha's popularity in general. I agree, multiple legs might work better, but for better mobility the idea of a GEV is much more effective (can you tell I'm also a David Drake "Hammers Slammers" fan as well...). Low gravity, zero atmosphere, the idea of mecha makes a little more sense... Especially over extremely rough terrain, but even then I think a four legged platforms stability would do better over two legged. That and knee capping... Its always good to have some redundant backup systems!