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Old 06-24-2013, 06:17 AM   #11
Anders
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Default Re: Armor Divisor; issues?

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
Awhile back, I introduced AD(2) into a campaign. Long story short, one of my less good ideas. Now, a player wishes to take AD(infinite).

Does anyone know what I should do to allow it? Should Hardened be common? I don't want this campaign to fall apart before it starts.

Thanks ahead of time.
If AD(2) made your campaign fall apart, then I wouldn't allow AD (Infinite). Explain to the player why and if he refuses to understand, just say no. The next step is to smack him firmly on the head with the Golden Rule of Gaming "What the GM says, goes."
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: Armor Divisor; issues?

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
Any of those. I keep forgetting;
It matters a lot what you're doing with it, because...
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The main problem was; I use Low-Tech as a base for things. AD(2) rips through almost all armor in it.
AD(2) doesn't rip through anything on its own. AD(2) 9mm bullets (2d+1 pi or so) would go through most any low-tech armor. AD(2) arrowheads on arrows doing 1d imp aren't likely to get through a serious breastplate. (Even if they're allowed...and The Deadly Spring suggests only conditional AD(2) that wouldn't apply against really good plate.)

Broader game circumstances also inform on the implications, but armor divisor is a modifier, if we don't know what it's modifying it's pretty hard to know what it will do.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:39 AM   #13
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Default Re: Armor Divisor; issues?

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What does AD(inf.) represent in in-world terms?
Depends on the setting, but generally speaking, I'd say that it represents whatever the GM wants it to represent, generally gravitating towards, "ignore DR," which is IMHO pretty fair given the relative expenses involved.

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For that matter, what does AD(2) represent?
AD(2) represents a 1/2 armor divisor. Do you have a problem with that?
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:57 AM   #14
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Default Re: Armor Divisor; issues?

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Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc View Post
Depends on the setting, but generally speaking, I'd say that it represents whatever the GM wants it to represent, generally gravitating towards, "ignore DR," which is IMHO pretty fair given the relative expenses involved.



AD(2) represents a 1/2 armor divisor. Do you have a problem with that?
Neither of those is in-world terms, though.

AD(infinite) most likely represents 'passes through obstacles like they aren't there', since that's the effect it has under the rules.

AD(2) can appear in representations of a variety of penetration-enhancing designs...I have no idea which one the OP ran into trouble with from the thread.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:00 AM   #15
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Default Re: Armor Divisor; issues?

Definitely need more information. VS the heavier plate armors from low tech, a ST 12 guy with an AD(2) sword is merely back up to "not bouncing off helplessly" - especially if it`s one of the AD(2) swords from LT where the AD only applies with the very minimal thrust damage, rather than swing.

If it`s not something like an Estoc, well, you`re not sticking to low tech with your weapons. Why are you sticking to low tech with your armor?
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:30 AM   #16
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Default Re: Armor Divisor; issues?

I'm with Bruno: as I've noticed the destructive effects that AD(2) can have on my Dungeon Fantasy game, I've started creating cheap armor enchantments that give Hardening and giving more of the tough monsters natural hardening on the armor. It doesn't effect the PCs without AD(whatever) at all and it brings the guy with the magic armor penetrator back down to earth.

I'd allow AD(inf) on selected attacks, though. In DF, wizards can get an AD(inf) attack that does 1d damage. It's useful and neat, but it's not overpowered. If it did 10d, it'd be a problem - but it also wouldn't need AD(inf) to be a problem.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: Armor Divisor; issues?

My barbarian was doing something like 4d+ statics with an AD(2) morning star, but to be honest with that kind of damage the AD(2) was more of a formality than a real issue for most mortal opponents. Obviously this would be different for ST15-16 ish fighters with less blunt weapons.

The golem was a different case, but the golem had such high DR and HP (and Homogenous) that the AD was really just part of the process of chipping it to bits. Mrugnak got nearly pulped in the process so it clearly wasn't the most efficient route.

The key to stopping any one solution from becoming the solution is to make sure you present your players with a variety of problems, not one problem slightly redesigned over and over again.

In a realistic game there's not much room for variety - putting big holes in things is a universally applicable solution in real life.

If you're running a fantasy game, you have the option of going nuts with your creatures! take advantage of it!
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Armor Divisor; issues?

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
I'm with Bruno: as I've noticed the destructive effects that AD(2) can have on my Dungeon Fantasy game, I've started creating cheap armor enchantments that give Hardening and giving more of the tough monsters natural hardening on the armor. It doesn't effect the PCs without AD(whatever) at all and it brings the guy with the magic armor penetrator back down to earth.
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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
In a realistic game there's not much room for variety - putting big holes in things is a universally applicable solution in real life.

If you're running a fantasy game, you have the option of going nuts with your creatures! take advantage of it!
The damage in question was 2d+3 (ST14, +2 sword), enough that even the cheaper magical armor (DR9 plate with DR2 magic) wasn't enough to stop it. The AD was a huge deal; he got the sword late on in the campaign, and not many people even knew it could happen (I can be a bit too gift happy...)

I would rather give my player AD(infinite) and make it fun. Having Hardened show up can help (he decided to downgrade to 10, to remark the blade being a combination of incredibly fine and hot enough to melt through). And this setting will have things like goblin parties showing up, enemies with Diffuse, etc. Oh, and he effectively got this sword from a society that is now his Enemy, so their armor will often ignore it.

Thanks for all the help. I can use all the stuff you all told me, and this player is one of my better players, so will work with me on it.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:42 PM   #19
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Default Re: Armor Divisor; issues?

Put the AD only on thrusting attacks.
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:45 PM   #20
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Default Re: Armor Divisor; issues?

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Put the AD only on thrusting attacks.
It could also be appropriate on things like Picks, which have their own downsides that limit their use. I'd also be in favor of having AD(2) convert Impaling damage to Piercing (like a Bodkin), making it a tactical choice rather than an "I win" button.
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