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Old 06-04-2018, 03:32 PM   #801
Jim Kane
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Default Re: Heal spell used once per day?

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
No where does it say it can be done once per day. The wizard heals 3, waits for 90 minutes, heals 3 more, etc.

If the spell could ONLY be used once per day per wounded figure, I wouldn't be so troubled by it.

Rick
The only problem I see with such a solution is that the TFT decidedly works on a: "pay-as-you-go, for as long you can go, until you cannot pay the fare any longer" design; whereas the "one time per day" system is Vancian by design, and therefore antagonistic to the whole of the TFT magic system mechanical design.

Is there another solution we could find which essentially achieves the same limiting effect you desire, while working within the established mechanics of TFT?

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 06-06-2018 at 12:13 AM. Reason: Typos
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Old 06-04-2018, 03:58 PM   #802
Rick_Smith
 
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Default Re: Heal spell used once per day?

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Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
The only problem I see with such a solution is that the TFT decidedly works on a: "pay-as-you-go, ...

Is there another solution we could find which essentially achieves the same limiting effect you desire, while working within the established mechanics of TFT?JK
Well I HAVE suggested my healing spells.

My main point was that this allows you to heal as fast as you get fST and that is very powerful and very fast. It certainly is not "3 damage healed per day".

Rick
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:22 PM   #803
Jim Kane
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

Yes you have Rick, as have a great many others; and I hope SJ reads every single one of them.

My best suggestion is merely that we try our best to find a solution which aviods the Vancian "____ per day" thing as a root-mechanic at all costs, and works within the established TFT established-mechanics to achieve the same desired limiting effect.

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 06-04-2018 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:31 PM   #804
Kirk
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
Yes you have Rick, as have a great many others; and I hope SJ reads every single one of them.

My best suggestion is merely that we try our best to find a solution which aviods the Vancian "____ per day" thing as a root-mechanic at all costs, and works within the established TFT established-mechanics to achieve the same desired limiting effect.

JK
Yes, absolutely. This is the biggest take away I had from my excursion with D&D, the ridiculous beginning magic user that could cast one spell per day, and if I remember only had one spell, or something as ridiculous. BORING.
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Old 06-04-2018, 05:52 PM   #805
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Larsdangly,
It says in Physicker that you can heal once per combat. I've never seen a TFT campaign where if in a fight you take 4 small wounds, the physicker can heal each of those wounds for 2 each.

Warm regards, Rick.
That is true, although the language is sufficiently vague that I consider it the lightest of house rulings to allow one attempted treatment per injury rather than per 'scene'
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Old 06-04-2018, 06:38 PM   #806
Skarg
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
3. TFT's combat system is fast AND detailed. As you note, tactics and maneuver are very important. It is superior to 3e+ D&D, GURPS or any other system.
Well I'd say that the mapped tactical combat in TFT & GURPS is quite similar (TFT combat is simpler, but I generally prefer GURPS combat), and is the main reason I prefer them over all other RPG systems. The tactical combats themselves are a major part of the fun, and can be played for fun just by themselves.

To me, THIS is the one obvious thing that these games offer over all others. I'd say the marketing should include compelling pictures and descriptions that communicate that there's something special that new players probably haven't quite experienced before. That TFT combat is something distinctly interesting and fun, that is unpredictable and has things happen because of the situation and player choices rather than being something to get over with as quickly as possible and that's mainly about how uberpowerful your character is and how many hitpoints it has left.


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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
You know, I just don't think that spell is all that useful. A typical wizard (say ST 10-11) can restore a whopping 3 points of damage per day. (3 ST to heal 1 point of damage).
Only if the wizard has no one to cast Aid on him, he doesn't rest at all that day, and he doesn't have Drain ST.

If he spends the day resting in a wagon while the party travels, he can rest up an additional 64 ST, meaning he can heal more like 24 points of injury per day, all by himself. Every additional IQ 9 person with the Aid spell who can also rest all day can help him to heal another 24 points of injury per day. All adventurers would do well to consider learning Aid themselves, so they can offer to Aid their healing wizard to heal themselves. A party who all have Aid can get themselves injured to death's door about twice per day and still be good as new by the next day.


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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
A liberal interpretation of the Physicker talent (that it can be applied to each separate injury, as opposed to once per encounter) is already more powerful than either SJ's proposed healing spell or the Heal potion already in the game (unless you hand the potions out, or have them freely available to buy, in which case that is obviously the most powerful source of healing). A master physicker can basically get a well armored character back up to good-as-new after most fights, because the damage they take usually comes in small increments.
Yes. This is how we played.


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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
It says in Physicker that you can heal once per combat. I've never seen a TFT campaign where if in a fight you take 4 small wounds, the physicker can heal each of those wounds for 2 each.
It's the only way we ever played.

Because it makes so little sense to read it as "per combat".

Abe gets hit 5 times throughout a day, and gets healed by a physicker once after every wound.

Bob gets hits 5 times in the same way as Abe, but all in one combat. Then the physicker can heal only him once?

Carl the Clever, seeing this, gets hurt once in combat, and decides to start Defending and Disengaging and hiding out, and Dave the Devious swaps into his place, having also realized that the party will survive ten times as long if they only get hurt once per combat.
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:24 PM   #807
Rick_Smith
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
>>> Healing is done per wound instead of per combat. <<<

Yes. This is how we played.

It's the only way we ever played.

Because it makes so little sense to read it as "per combat".

Abe gets hit 5 times throughout a day, and gets healed by a physicker once after every wound.

Bob gets hits 5 times in the same way as Abe, but all in one combat. Then the physicker can heal only him once?

Carl the Clever, seeing this, gets hurt once in combat, and decides to start Defending and Disengaging and hiding out, and Dave the Devious swaps into his place, having also realized that the party will survive ten times as long if they only get hurt once per combat.
Hi Skarg,
Physicker reads:

"PHYSICKER (2). Healer's abilities. A Physicker can heal up to 2 hits on any humanoid figure (wounds only - not exhaustion) after any combat or accident. ... <describes how healing is done> ... However, if he is later takes another 5 hits from another mishap he can be cured 2 more by any physicker. It takes 5 minutes to heal 5 hits."

If you are hit once, then you can be bandaged up for two points of healing.

But when you are wounded, can you wait 20 minutes before treatment begins and still restore those two points? Or should treatment start immediately. I would think it would have to start at once.

***

Now you are in a fight and are hit, and hit again (perhaps aggravating the first wound), and then hit again (you're fighting hard, adrenaline pumping hard, active motion increasing blood loss). Then are hit again for a one point wound, and a couple rounds later, a fifth time. All told you have taken 13 points of damage.

After this mauling, a low tech physicker can restore 10 hits???

So you have been hit 5 times, so a physicker should give you back 10 hits?
Do you keep track that one of those wounds was only a 1 point, so you can only heal one from that wound? Does this healing take 5 minutes? Or does it take 25 minutes? If it takes 25 minutes, is not effectively the last wound being untreated for 20 minutes before work starts on it?

***

Saying that you can treat wounds once per combat makes sense to me. I do think that the rules could have been written more clearly.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:40 PM   #808
JLV
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
JLV: TFT isn't a perfect system either, as the multitude of posts on these forums proves. Nevertheless, it was my favourite of the early systems and I'm still very attached to it.

I was simply pulling you up on your comment that RPG game systems are now all very complex. That simply isn't true.
I don't believe I ever used the word "perfect" in any of my posts.

Most RPG systems these days ARE very complex -- the fact that you can find a few relatively unknown outliers doesn't actually change that.
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:42 PM   #809
JLV
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Yes, Big Rubble was great and very clever, as the "Dungeon" (ruins of the old city) was built right outside the walls of Pavis (the new city) so you could easily get from one to the other. Although I seem to remember you needed to buy a license to go into the rubble!

Wasn't the original Castle Greyhawk of D&D a similar idea?
That sounds remarkably similar to Empire of the Petal Throne (published in 1974 or '75), in concept.
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:53 PM   #810
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
But when you are wounded, can you wait 20 minutes before treatment begins and still restore those two points? Or should treatment start immediately. I would think it would have to start at once.
Good question. It doesn't mention a limit on how long someone can wait to be treated. We played that there was no particular time limit but the GM could and sometimes did rule that a wound had gone too long untreated and so that was a problem and it either wasn't treatable now, or it was getting worse (e.g. from bleeding) but could be treated, or some other problem had developed such as an infection.

The problem with a time limit is that generally (at least at more modern tech levels), late treatment is generally still much better than NO treatment. So it's not just that your time limit to treat a wound is over (in which case there would be no point in getting treated). Rather, it's more like the wound may get worse, but in that case treatment becomes even more important, not less.


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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Now you are in a fight and are hit, and hit again (perhaps aggravating the first wound), and then hit again (you're fighting hard, adrenaline pumping hard, active motion increasing blood loss). Then are hit again for a one point wound, and a couple rounds later, a fifth time. All told you have taken 13 points of damage.

After this mauling, a low tech physicker can restore 10 hits???
Depends on the amount of each wound. You can't heal a one-point wound more than one point.

If you have 5 wounds which total 13 points, that means between two and four of those wounds are 1-point or 2-point wounds, which is about as weak an injury you can have without it being no injury at all, and each of them could be healed entirely if it were the only wound you got.

Worst case is the damages were 1, 1, 1, 1, 9, in which case you had four scratches and one serious wound which is treatable to 7.

So yes, absolutely.


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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Do you keep track that one of those wounds was only a 1 point, so you can only heal one from that wound?
Yes. Each time you take a wound, you and/or the GM tracks it like -1, -3, etc. When it's healed, we put the healed amount in parentheses or circled.


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Does this healing take 5 minutes? Or does it take 25 minutes? If it takes 25 minutes, is not effectively the last wound being untreated for 20 minutes before work starts on it?
We didn't have a 20-minute healing deadline, and after thinking it over (see above) I wouldn't think one would be appropriate.

We played it that yes, it took 5 minutes per wound treatment. Later I think we pro-rated it if/when that mattered, so if it's less than the healer can heal, it takes less time per trivial wound.


We really liked that it made minor wounds minor or even completely healable, but major wounds still serious and lasting.

But the real thing that forced the issue was that it's exactly what would happen if there is time to heal between each injury. You wrote that as if healing 10 hits and taking 25 minutes were weird, but that's exactly what happens even if you limit healing per combat, IF someone only takes one wound between each healing, no matter how you interpret it.
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