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Old 06-04-2018, 02:35 AM   #791
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by JLV View Post
All of that may well be true, but I would hate to see ITL relegated to some kind of "skirmish" or "arena" game, and I think we do a disservice to the community by doing so.

TFT gave AD&D a serious run for it's money back in the day, and given that pretty much every RPG on the market today is enormously complex (even the so-called "retro-clones" are made more complex than the games they were supposed to get you back to), I suspect that TFT's RPG niche (simple, fast, fun, yet capable of delivering a true RPG experience despite those first three descriptors) is the one that's truly underserved at this point...

Actually there are a large number of simple RPG systems out there, and I've played a few of them; The Black Hack, Risus, Dungeon Squad, Polies and Polyhedral Dungeon, Altars and Archetypes, to name a few. They typically run to only a handful of pages and have simple, logical rule systems. They are my preference for RPGs these days as I don't have the patience for hundreds of pages of rules. These games are almost universally self published by the authors and are often free to download.

What none of them have is a true Tactical rules system which can be used with miniatures. On the other hand, a tactical skirmish game like Song of Blades and Heroes has started to evolve towards an RPG with some of its later supplements.

What I mean by that is that whatever niche TFT moves into, it will find already filled by other games. This isn't the late 70s/early80s any more. There are hundreds (if not thousands)of competing games out there, and although I'm sure TFT will find a market, it won't be running D&D a close second like it did in the past. There are just too many games.
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Old 06-04-2018, 03:24 AM   #792
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: D&D does easy healing --> Clone it?

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
I decided that risky combats were good, but long healing times while not adventuring were bad. Therefore, I thought of a way to add healing to my campaign which fixed the latter, but left the former alone.
So we're in agreement?

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If someone says, "the ideal game is D&D, so let's make TFT more like D&D", then that is taking a risk.
In this forum? Indeed. They might get tarred and feathered.

D&D definitely has the "come in, clean out three rooms, leave to recover" effect. The healing runs out because the clerics have a finite supply of magic before needing to rest. The party needs to make a decision as to whether to retreat to rest or to rest in situ but there's a pause after any really tough fight.

For most campaigns I'd rather make healing super-easy, and delete the pause. But there is some campaign-dependence here.
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:40 AM   #793
JLV
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
Actually there are a large number of simple RPG systems out there, and I've played a few of them; The Black Hack, Risus, Dungeon Squad, Polies and Polyhedral Dungeon, Altars and Archetypes, to name a few. They typically run to only a handful of pages and have simple, logical rule systems. They are my preference for RPGs these days as I don't have the patience for hundreds of pages of rules. These games are almost universally self published by the authors and are often free to download.

What none of them have is a true Tactical rules system which can be used with miniatures. On the other hand, a tactical skirmish game like Song of Blades and Heroes has started to evolve towards an RPG with some of its later supplements.

What I mean by that is that whatever niche TFT moves into, it will find already filled by other games. This isn't the late 70s/early80s any more. There are hundreds (if not thousands)of competing games out there, and although I'm sure TFT will find a market, it won't be running D&D a close second like it did in the past. There are just too many games.
Well, and the point kind of is "I've played all of them." Not, "I found a perfect system and stuck to it." So whatever you're looking for in a game has not yet been satisfied by them, which means there's plenty of room still to grow.

And my point wasn't that TFT will take the world by storm necessarily, but rather that it is such a great system that it HAS taken the world by storm in the past. It's still a great system, and does everything the other "simple" games you mentioned do, but with greater consistency, less room for off-the-wall interpretations, and this despite the fact that it's a 40 year-old system.
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:13 PM   #794
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

JLV: TFT isn't a perfect system either, as the multitude of posts on these forums proves. Nevertheless, it was my favourite of the early systems and I'm still very attached to it.

I was simply pulling you up on your comment that RPG game systems are now all very complex. That simply isn't true.
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:39 PM   #795
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

There are other games that basically don't work as D+D style mega-dungeon crawls. Runequest comes to mind. RQ has healing, but the pace and risk of combat doesn't allow for adventures where you have a dozen fights in a night of play, or go through a hundred or more rooms in one dungeon. The RQ megadungeon is Snake Pipe Hollow, and its a modest affair that can be stripped to the wall studs in 3-4 hours of play. Perhaps the closest they come to a big dungeon is Big Rubble. But the difference there is that Big Rubble is a campaign setting, not a single densely stocked dungeon where you are not continuously exposed to immediate danger of fights for hours on end. In this sense, TFT is more like Runequest than it is like D+D
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Old 06-04-2018, 01:08 PM   #796
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
There are other games that basically don't work as D+D style mega-dungeon crawls. Runequest comes to mind. RQ has healing, but the pace and risk of combat doesn't allow for adventures where you have a dozen fights in a night of play, or go through a hundred or more rooms in one dungeon. The RQ megadungeon is Snake Pipe Hollow, and its a modest affair that can be stripped to the wall studs in 3-4 hours of play. Perhaps the closest they come to a big dungeon is Big Rubble. But the difference there is that Big Rubble is a campaign setting, not a single densely stocked dungeon where you are not continuously exposed to immediate danger of fights for hours on end. In this sense, TFT is more like Runequest than it is like D+D
Yes, Big Rubble was great and very clever, as the "Dungeon" (ruins of the old city) was built right outside the walls of Pavis (the new city) so you could easily get from one to the other. Although I seem to remember you needed to buy a license to go into the rubble!

Wasn't the original Castle Greyhawk of D&D a similar idea?
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Old 06-04-2018, 01:11 PM   #797
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip - Key Advantages?

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Ty, everyone.
This thread was talking about TFT dungeon adventures (and seemed to be discussing adapting lower level D&D adventures to this theme).

A couple of points: First the majority of my TFT campaign is NOT happening in dungeons. (Then again, I've added several talents to support non-combat stuff, as the base talent list is heavily combat focused.)
I'd say that a bare majority of my campaign took place in dungeons. When I re-start, probably the majority will. But, given TFT's combat system, we did have a lot of outdoor battles.

Quote:
Second, I would like to muse on what sets apart a TFT dungeon from typical D&D dungeons? Does TFT have a unique selling point, which will help it differentiate itself from the rest of the market? (I welcome further thoughts on this as some good ideas here may help TFT survive...)
Well, I'd submit that there are two...no, three points that characterize (heh) TFT in general - its exotic history, fast character generation and the best combat system evuh (IMHO):

1. TFT is a classic from the Precambrian Age of gaming that hasn't been available in 37 years. See what all the fuss is about.

2. TFT has one of the fastest and simplest character generation systems. And it yields a pretty well-defined character.

3. TFT's combat system is fast AND detailed. As you note, tactics and maneuver are very important. It is superior to 3e+ D&D, GURPS or any other system.

As for what would make it a good but different dungeon RPG, here my thoughts, many of which repeat your comments:

1. Big fights are doable.

2. Combat is fast and engaging. Tactics and maneuvers matter. Combats are faster than either 3.5+ edition D&D or GURPS.

3. Combat is more deadly and dramatic (though not so deadly that battles are inevitably bloodbaths).

4. Character generation is a breeze - you can have characters generated in 5 minutes and be playing.

Quote:
It sounds like Steve Jackson has already decided on adding a very powerful healing spell, but I hope he reconsiders.
You know, I just don't think that spell is all that useful. A typical wizard (say ST 10-11) can restore a whopping 3 points of damage per day. (3 ST to heal 1 point of damage).

BUT...I don't generally allow wizards to rest much between dungeon battles. I allow a 15-20 minute break before the monsters start mounting counterattacks.

So I suppose the spell IS powerful if you allow wizards to recover their ST between battles. Perhaps it should require more rest for wizards to recover ST? After all, an average wizard (ST10 ish) can recover completely in 2.5 hours of rest, which seems extreme to me. I'd require the lesser of 1 hour per point of ST or 8 hours of *quality* rest. Napping in a dungeon wouldn't qualify...
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:04 PM   #798
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

A liberal interpretation of the Physicker talent (that it can be applied to each separate injury, as opposed to once per encounter) is already more powerful than either SJ's proposed healing spell or the Heal potion already in the game (unless you hand the potions out, or have them freely available to buy, in which case that is obviously the most powerful source of healing). A master physicker can basically get a well armored character back up to good-as-new after most fights, because the damage they take usually comes in small increments.
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:22 PM   #799
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
A liberal interpretation of the Physicker talent (that it can be applied to each separate injury, as opposed to once per encounter) is already more powerful ...
Hi Larsdangly,
It says in Physicker that you can heal once per combat. I've never seen a TFT campaign where if in a fight you take 4 small wounds, the physicker can heal each of those wounds for 2 each.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:27 PM   #800
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Heal spell used once per day?

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
...
You know, I just don't think that spell is all that useful. A typical wizard (say ST 10-11) can restore a whopping 3 points of damage per day. (3 fST to heal 1 point of damage). ...
Hi Ty,
SJ spell is:

> Heal (T) (IQ 14)
> For each 3 points of ST that the wizard puts into this spell, he/she can
> cure one hit of damage on himself or another. Heal will also restore lost
> fatigue from spellcasting, etc., but rarely is it practical to use it this way.
> Heal will cure HT already lost to disease and poison, but it will not cure
> the disease nor make a poison go away. ...

No where does it say it can be done once per day. The wizard heals 3, waits for 90 minutes, heals 3 more, etc.

If the spell could ONLY be used once per day per wounded figure, I wouldn't be so troubled by it.

Rick
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