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Old 03-16-2019, 08:39 PM   #21
hcobb
 
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Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

Just get a spear thrower and very fine javelins.

What's the hash tag for "Saved you two points of ST"?
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:01 PM   #22
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

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Originally Posted by warhorse11h View Post
I admit that prior to this thread starting, I had never paid much attention to or had much interest in boomerangs. I became curious and did a little reading about them. They appear to be as deadly as ITL represents them, but only in the hands of skilled throwers. They also appear to be as long ranged. Weapon boomerangs are also large and heavy. One source listed the weight of a non-returning weapon boomerang as being 5 to 10 lbs. A stick of wood that size is not easy to carry and multiple ones would be impractical, in my opinion, unless in a pack. Having said that, I agree that it seems that a figure in plate or chainmail would have a degree of invulnerability to something like a boomerang unless critical hit rules are being used. I seem to remember reading that knights hit in the head with a mace got their bell rung fairly easily.
Yes, they're giant things, and the thing that makes them competitive with light crossbows in TFT is that the Thrown Weapons talent seems (?) to give a blanket "instantly ready" perk to all thrown weapons (even peculiar weapons?). It seems to me that one of the easiest and most logical/appropriate ways to prevent unwanted boomerang abuse is to rule that Thrown Weapons does not remove the need to Ready large weapons such as a war boomerang (or a net?).

Most of the peculiar weapons are still very powerful in one way or another. Lassos/Whips/Spear Throwers, etc. Seems to me most of them warrant more limitations and/or drawbacks unless the desire is for them to be indulged as especially effective (such as the first time they're used, because they're a surprise).
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:50 PM   #23
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

I just don't accept that a hurled 5 pound stick is as dangerous as a crossbow to a person in full armor. It just seems ludicrous.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:24 PM   #24
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Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I just don't accept that a hurled 5 pound stick is as dangerous as a crossbow to a person in full armor. It just seems ludicrous.
Would you rather be hit with a half ounce stick or a 48 ounce stick?
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:46 PM   #25
HeatDeath
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

Energy imparted increases as the square of the speed, and damage done is proportional to the energy divided by the surface area of the impact. I'd rather be hit by a war boomerang than the pointy end of a full speed crossbow bolt any day of the week.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:59 AM   #26
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

It's just absurd. Consider this: A thrown object can't possibly hit you with more energy than it had when it left your hand, so hitting something with a wooden boomerang can't be any more effective than whacking it with a baseball bat held in 1 hand. Which is plenty hard if you get nailed right on the skull. But anyone who has monkeyed around in full armor (e.g., SCA combat) knows that a blunt wooden object can't hurt you in any significant way through a full helm or proper body armor. Basically, boomerang damage should be like your 1H club damage (or, more reasonably 1-2 points less, given that it hits you after flying through the air).
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:27 AM   #27
warhorse11h
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
It's just absurd. Consider this: A thrown object can't possibly hit you with more energy than it had when it left your hand, so hitting something with a wooden boomerang can't be any more effective than whacking it with a baseball bat held in 1 hand. Which is plenty hard if you get nailed right on the skull. But anyone who has monkeyed around in full armor (e.g., SCA combat) knows that a blunt wooden object can't hurt you in any significant way through a full helm or proper body armor. Basically, boomerang damage should be like your 1H club damage (or, more reasonably 1-2 points less, given that it hits you after flying through the air).
We might be looking at this the wrong way. It may not be that the boomerang is overpowered, it might be that spears and javelins are underpowered.

ITL states that a spear or javelin, thrown with a spear thrower using thrown weapons talent, gets the +2 DX for the talent and that the spear/javelin uses missile weapons DX adjustments. It occurs to me that this is leaving out one thing. Javelins and spears can be used for a charge attack, gaining a one die damage bonus. When used this way, the momentum and power of the wielder imparts greater force to them. When throwing them, you are putting your weight and force into them in the throwing action. It seems reasonable to me that a thrown spear, if you know thrown weapons, should also get the charge attack damage bonus, granted, with the thrown weapons dx adjustment, not missile weapons DX unless you are using the spear thrower. That puts them even with or ahead of the boomerang for damage done.
I have to admit I don't have a problem with the boomerang and a light crossbow doing similar damage. One is impact/bldugeoning damage, the other penetration damage confined to a smaller target area. This is offset by something not covered in the rules specifically, but that a GM can fix if needed. A crossbowman should be able to make 20 or more shots before he runs out of bolts. A boomeranger shouldn't have more than three of them, anymore than a spearman or javelin thrower should have more than two or three available. It really is a question of how many can you carry, reasonably.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:10 AM   #28
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

Thrown spears are definitely under powered, both because of the range and because of the damage
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:30 AM   #29
warhorse11h
 
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Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Thrown spears are definitely under powered, both because of the range and because of the damage
An alternative, possibly better, would be to treat the boomerang as a club and gear the damage to that mechanic. Just a thought.
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:40 AM   #30
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

It wouldn't help in reality against metal armor, but war boomerangs were sharp, so more lethal against flesh than hitting someone with a stick.
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