Insubstantial flyer

[Gerdun]

Now .. since insubstantial is not affected by environment...

What would be the "swim" speed for a character with 1024 enhanced air flight?
How about space flight speed?

If the character falls unconscious under water does he still float?

[LemmingLord]

Originally Posted by Gerdun

Now .. since insubstantial is not affected by environment...

What would be the "swim" speed for a character with 1024 enhanced air flight?
How about space flight speed?

If the character falls unconscious under water does he still float?

The character can't swim while insubstantial but can move at flight speed.

If knocked unconscious, the character will not float. The character won't drown either, but will suffocate.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Gerdun

Now .. since insubstantial is not affected by environment...

What would be the "swim" speed for a character with 1024 enhanced air flight?
How about space flight speed?

If the character falls unconscious under water does he still float?

An insubstantial character is not in water or air or space. He's in the insubstantial environment, which is none of those. He gets his base Move (5 or 6 or whatever it is) in any direction regardless of what the substantial environment at the same location is like. This may look like flying, but it's not, so his flight move doesn't matter.

And no for standard insubstantiality he doesn't float when unconscious. He doesn't fall either. If he doesn't will himself to move, he doesn't. Well OK, Insubstantial does assume you can stay with a large moving object (like the planet, a ship, or an elevator) for free, but that's a matter of play convenience. If you are wondering if you float, you are probably trying to think too hard about an effect that routinely defies logic.

[Flyndaran]

So an insubstantial bird must walk across the sky? Does that not sound silly to anyone else?

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

So an insubstantial bird must walk across the sky? Does that not sound silly to anyone else?

An insubstantial bird likely gets its air move, considering it already has the Flight advantage. There's just no benefit or penalty due to wind speed!

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

So an insubstantial bird must walk across the sky? Does that not sound silly to anyone else?

No, because insubstantial wings won't interact with the air and thus won't let you fly. You'd look even sillier hanging in one spot, frantically waving your wings about to no effect.

Feel free to extend your wings while translating insubstantially and call it "flying", if you like. But whatever translation mechanism you get while insubtantial, it's not the same as your normal state ones. Insubstantial feet can't push off the ground; insubstantial wings can't push air; insubstantial fins can't push water. You get the levitating drifting ghost move instead -- though that can look like whatever you want, as that's just a special effect.

If you want to move faster while insubstantial, I'd allow the ghost bird to buy Enhanced Move (Insubstantial). If it can also fly quickly in normal state, it might have Flight with Enhanced Move as well.

[Flyndaran]

I suppose it sounds fair in a game mechanics fashion, but still sounds silly to me on the face of it.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I suppose it sounds fair in a game mechanics fashion, but still sounds silly to me on the face of it.

Winged Flight and Insubstantial just don't mix well, because of physics. Those with non-winged flight, however, shouldn't have a problem.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Winged Flight and Insubstantial just don't mix well, because of physics. Those with non-winged flight, however, shouldn't have a problem.

You did not just mention physics in the same breath as the impossible insubstantial, did you?
First and foremost, flight is movement above the ground. Unlimited Insubstantial allows movement above the ground but at base Move rate. I see only minimal issue with allowing those that paid for Flight proper to use the double movement when insubstantial. It's not like they would be getting something for free.
But I'm not married to the idea and could be convinced from a meta-gaming perspective.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

You did not just mention physics in the same breath as the impossible insubstantial, did you?
First and foremost, flight is movement above the ground. Unlimited Insubstantial allows movement above the ground but at base Move rate. I see only minimal issue with allowing those that paid for Flight proper to use the double movement when insubstantial. It's not like they would be getting something for free.

That would be fair enough. You could take Flight as an alternate ability to Insubstantial and the saved points would more than pay for a level of Enhanced Move (only while Insubstantial), so it's not doing any damage to point balance that alternate abilities hasn't already inflicted.