[Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless?

Gef · 09-19-2016, 09:39 PM

In his interview with Douglas Cole, Sean Punch specifically mentioned the spell Bless as getting editorial attention. In my campaign, a wizard can get Wealthy casting that spell for $500 a pop, and it looks like it basically gives Higher Purpose (Everything) until you redeem it for Extra Life, and then spend another $500. Since my game's going on now and DF boxed set is months away, I'm curious how other folks adjudicate that particular spell.

Ternas · 09-19-2016, 10:04 PM

When I GMed some dungeon fantasy games there was one basic standard with the group, and that was that the Cleric would always cast Bless on the group before they went off on their murder hobo spree. Whoo boy, it got to be annoying so I came up with a couple points for the group based off of a couple things.

1. Once you've made three to five important rolls (attack, defense, rolls that are marked critical for that dungeon) that succeeded only by the margin of Bless, it wears off.

2. I will always ask if you want to give up your Bless to avert some kind of danger from a trap or otherwise. Of course I might exaggerate the danger in order to convince them that it's a good idea to give it up.

3. And the canonical way, if a rolled failure critically endangers your life then the GM's special Retconmancy is utilized and the danger gets lessened or averted automatically without say so.

This has worked for me because the group I'm a part of understands that I probably won't screw them over completely.

What I would love to see, however, is for a version of Bless that works like a one time magical version of Destiny Points for buying success but keeping the current cost/time/pre-req. Makes things useful for folks and since you can't just cast it in the middle of a battle, it makes things a bit tactical on who you should keep buffing with it in the middle of a dungeon.

weby · 09-20-2016, 08:13 AM

It is not only extra life, it only needs to be serious danger and in Gurps combat almost any hit, possible fall, not seeing an ambush and much much more is usually serious danger.

Thus:
Fail a defense roll->bye bye bless
Enemy rolls a critical hit on you->bye bye bless
You fail a perception roll to detect an ambush->bye bye bless
and so on.

I my game while we were still using the standard magic system bless did not last very long. Further with a 10 minute base casting time and 10 base energy cost it was definitely not "always available", also the 1 point bless will not apparently stop a danger, only help partially, so my players really wanted the 2 point bless and it is very difficult to cast in a dungeon.

Anaraxes · 09-20-2016, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weby

it only needs to be serious danger

True. The danger need not be life-threatening, and the Bless doesn't erase the death completely (as does Extra Life). "Danger" includes most combats. (Bar brawls, no; maybe some trivial mook fights -- but even then, bad guys can get lucky. If the fight is really trivial and risk-free, you're probably not even breaking out the dice.) So, Bless will get expended quite quickly in your average dungeon crawl.

Quote:

Enemy rolls a critical hit on you->bye bye bless

The text says "a foe makes a good die roll". So it's not even limited to criticals. Good hit location might be shifted to a less vulnerable one, a good damage roll might be reduced... The only guaranteed result from a crit is "no Active Defense", so that roll isn't really all that high up on the "threatening" scale. Other rolls can be just as serious, and so just as liable to use up Bless.

Kuroshima · 09-20-2016, 08:47 AM

I personally changed bless to give "destiny points" (from Impulse Buys) equal to the level, lasts until the next sunrise, and cant be cast once per day per target. It's still an awesome spell, and the characters don't leave home without it, but it's no longer THAT awesome.

Railstar · 09-20-2016, 09:19 AM

I go the opposite way to some others and institutionalise it.

The coronation ceremony for the new king? Bless 3, ceremonial magic.

A blessing on the general before the army marches out? Bless 2.

Prayer a few days in advance of battle with the chaplain? Bless 1.

And so on. To some degree seeking blessings from the church before major ventures was a common thing and to make it part of the setting gives religion a little more meaning to the characters (one trope that annoys me in general is when divine spellcasters are the only people who seem to be religious in a fantasy setting).

Bless 1 can be cast in 10 minutes by a single priest (who then needs a lot of rest), or 100 minutes with ceremonial casting. Bless 2 is more prohibitive, requiring either 50 energy (which would probably kill the caster) or 500 minutes = 8 hours & 20 minutes = all day essentially. Bless 3 is even more demanding.

So when the king or high priest or lord commander seems unusually competent in general, now you know why. Even though my campaigns usually stick to the Template Toolkit semi-realistic “skill 14-15 is the primary skills for a risky job”… but a fantasy-Aztec Eagle Warrior with a skill of Broadsword 14 has an extra +1 (Magical Weapon Bond perk), a further +1 (balanced weapon), and then another +1 (Bless).

For a way to make the limitations of the spell meaningful I rule “your characters do not automatically know when the Bless wears off.” So unless they go through the motions of regularly checking with Analyse Magic (which if you look up the spell, is a pain to go through) or other methods with their own inconveniences* then I don't let them replace the blessing so soon after expending it – the characters don't know if the attack that missed them was the result of a favourable dice roll or the Bless being expended.

*examples would be redundant castings of Bless (uses up time and energy even if it's unnecessary), or removing other sources of magic so that a less painstaking spell can check if the Bless is still active (which could go badly if ill-timed).

sir_pudding · 09-20-2016, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

I personally changed bless to give "destiny points" (from Impulse Buys) equal to the level, lasts until the next sunrise, and cant be cast once per day per target. It's still an awesome spell, and the characters don't leave home without it, but it's no longer THAT awesome.

Yeah, giving it a duration fixes a lot of the issues, giving Destiny Points is a nice touch, although I think I'd like that as a separate spell than one that gives a bonus to most rolls (which I still would like to have; GURPS Magic spells really don't seem to have a lot of generally applicable buffs).

What about limiting to bonus to skill and attribute rolls, with half the bonus adding to defense rolls? And then giving it say a 10 minute duration without the "burn-out" clause?

Carnwennan · 09-22-2016, 08:18 AM

It's probitively expensive to cast in the middle of a dungeon, usually it gets cast in town. If you don't like it, I think that the solution is to throw things at the party on the way to the dungeon (i.e. that whole Wilderness Adventures book) and to be merciless in having it pop like an excitable puppy in service of its master when bad things happen. Give the players an option to use it or not and they won't unless they're confident that they won't survive (since they'll get +1 on all of their HT checks to stay conscious or resist stunning from the bless, why burn it if it's just going to cause them to lose an arm instead of getting hit in the torso?)

The cleric might want to recast the Blessing on the trail, but random encounters are always a problem in and out of the dungeon. If he wants to an hour to refresh each blessing (10 min casting + 50 min recovery) then alright, roll two random encounter checks per and secretly bump up the chances of drawing the attention of Supernatural Evil because you're throwing around lots of Holy Stuff and they hate that with all of their soul. Something comes up after the first check? The cleric starts the encounter at half FP or worse. Require that, to refresh blessings, the party can't move and suddenly they're losing valuable travel time and burning through their rations as well.

(Do this for Wizards too. If they want to cast the spells in the morning that's fine, but they're not recovering FP until they stop and take a break. Make the party to make timecards if you need to)

If they make it to the dungeon with blessings intact then congratulations: now your chances of keeping the thing active plummet like an overconfident thief into an illusioned pit trap menacing with spikes of poisonwood.

Kalzazz · 09-22-2016, 09:22 AM

I actually haven't bless much . . . the number of pre reqs, the FP cost, and the 'only on others' makes it unpopular

Computer programming is very much like religion, you write great swaths of text understandable only to those enlightened in the sacred mysteries, and read through and try to understand the cryptic writings of the long dead ancestors who came before, and each system is a living thing passed through many hands where the original intent is long forgotten

Faith is also very important in programming! The Faith Based Testing model is a tried and true approach
Programmer,'Hi User! I have made changes to your program, you should test it!'
User, 'No, we have faith in you! Just move it to Production'

hal · 09-22-2016, 10:05 AM

I permit the use of bless to be specific instead of general. " may all your children be born healthy" uses the effects of blessing for childbirth only. "May your sword always defend you well" uses blessing only for parries. "May your aim always be true" when cast on an archer etc. Adds more flavor as it were.

09-19-2016, 09:39 PM	#1
Gef Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Yucca Valley, CA	[Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless? In his interview with Douglas Cole, Sean Punch specifically mentioned the spell Bless as getting editorial attention. In my campaign, a wizard can get Wealthy casting that spell for $500 a pop, and it looks like it basically gives Higher Purpose (Everything) until you redeem it for Extra Life, and then spend another $500. Since my game's going on now and DF boxed set is months away, I'm curious how other folks adjudicate that particular spell.

09-19-2016, 10:04 PM	#2
Ternas Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Pacific Northwest	Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless? When I GMed some dungeon fantasy games there was one basic standard with the group, and that was that the Cleric would always cast Bless on the group before they went off on their murder hobo spree. Whoo boy, it got to be annoying so I came up with a couple points for the group based off of a couple things. 1. Once you've made three to five important rolls (attack, defense, rolls that are marked critical for that dungeon) that succeeded only by the margin of Bless, it wears off. 2. I will always ask if you want to give up your Bless to avert some kind of danger from a trap or otherwise. Of course I might exaggerate the danger in order to convince them that it's a good idea to give it up. 3. And the canonical way, if a rolled failure critically endangers your life then the GM's special Retconmancy is utilized and the danger gets lessened or averted automatically without say so. This has worked for me because the group I'm a part of understands that I probably won't screw them over completely. What I would love to see, however, is for a version of Bless that works like a one time magical version of Destiny Points for buying success but keeping the current cost/time/pre-req. Makes things useful for folks and since you can't just cast it in the middle of a battle, it makes things a bit tactical on who you should keep buffing with it in the middle of a dungeon. __________________ -- "Suppose they make me a halfback. Can I tackle the shortstop or not?" Has Quirk: Incompetence (Sports) [-1]

09-20-2016, 08:13 AM	#3
weby Join Date: Oct 2008	Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless? It is not only extra life, it only needs to be serious danger and in Gurps combat almost any hit, possible fall, not seeing an ambush and much much more is usually serious danger. Thus: Fail a defense roll->bye bye bless Enemy rolls a critical hit on you->bye bye bless You fail a perception roll to detect an ambush->bye bye bless and so on. I my game while we were still using the standard magic system bless did not last very long. Further with a 10 minute base casting time and 10 base energy cost it was definitely not "always available", also the 1 point bless will not apparently stop a danger, only help partially, so my players really wanted the 2 point bless and it is very difficult to cast in a dungeon. __________________ -- GURPS spaceship unofficial errata and thoughts: https://gsuc.roto.nu/

09-20-2016, 08:47 AM	#5
Kuroshima MIB Pyramid Contributor Mad Spaniard Rules Lawyer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The ASS of the world, mainly Valencia, Spain (Europe)	Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless? I personally changed bless to give "destiny points" (from Impulse Buys) equal to the level, lasts until the next sunrise, and cant be cast once per day per target. It's still an awesome spell, and the characters don't leave home without it, but it's no longer THAT awesome. __________________ Antoni Ten MIB3119 My GURPs character sheet My stuff on e23

09-20-2016, 09:19 AM	#6
Railstar Join Date: Jul 2012	Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless? I go the opposite way to some others and institutionalise it. The coronation ceremony for the new king? Bless 3, ceremonial magic. A blessing on the general before the army marches out? Bless 2. Prayer a few days in advance of battle with the chaplain? Bless 1. And so on. To some degree seeking blessings from the church before major ventures was a common thing and to make it part of the setting gives religion a little more meaning to the characters (one trope that annoys me in general is when divine spellcasters are the only people who seem to be religious in a fantasy setting). Bless 1 can be cast in 10 minutes by a single priest (who then needs a lot of rest), or 100 minutes with ceremonial casting. Bless 2 is more prohibitive, requiring either 50 energy (which would probably kill the caster) or 500 minutes = 8 hours & 20 minutes = all day essentially. Bless 3 is even more demanding. So when the king or high priest or lord commander seems unusually competent in general, now you know why. Even though my campaigns usually stick to the Template Toolkit semi-realistic “skill 14-15 is the primary skills for a risky job”… but a fantasy-Aztec Eagle Warrior with a skill of Broadsword 14 has an extra +1 (Magical Weapon Bond perk), a further +1 (balanced weapon), and then another +1 (Bless). For a way to make the limitations of the spell meaningful I rule “your characters do not automatically know when the Bless wears off.” So unless they go through the motions of regularly checking with Analyse Magic (which if you look up the spell, is a pain to go through) or other methods with their own inconveniences* then I don't let them replace the blessing so soon after expending it – the characters don't know if the attack that missed them was the result of a favourable dice roll or the Bless being expended. *examples would be redundant castings of Bless (uses up time and energy even if it's unnecessary), or removing other sources of magic so that a less painstaking spell can check if the Bless is still active (which could go badly if ill-timed).

09-22-2016, 08:18 AM	#8
Carnwennan Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Newcastle, England	Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless? It's probitively expensive to cast in the middle of a dungeon, usually it gets cast in town. If you don't like it, I think that the solution is to throw things at the party on the way to the dungeon (i.e. that whole Wilderness Adventures book) and to be merciless in having it pop like an excitable puppy in service of its master when bad things happen. Give the players an option to use it or not and they won't unless they're confident that they won't survive (since they'll get +1 on all of their HT checks to stay conscious or resist stunning from the bless, why burn it if it's just going to cause them to lose an arm instead of getting hit in the torso?) The cleric might want to recast the Blessing on the trail, but random encounters are always a problem in and out of the dungeon. If he wants to an hour to refresh each blessing (10 min casting + 50 min recovery) then alright, roll two random encounter checks per and secretly bump up the chances of drawing the attention of Supernatural Evil because you're throwing around lots of Holy Stuff and they hate that with all of their soul. Something comes up after the first check? The cleric starts the encounter at half FP or worse. Require that, to refresh blessings, the party can't move and suddenly they're losing valuable travel time and burning through their rations as well. (Do this for Wizards too. If they want to cast the spells in the morning that's fine, but they're not recovering FP until they stop and take a break. Make the party to make timecards if you need to) If they make it to the dungeon with blessings intact then congratulations: now your chances of keeping the thing active plummet like an overconfident thief into an illusioned pit trap menacing with spikes of poisonwood. __________________ You don't need legs to play arcade machines Last edited by Carnwennan; 09-22-2016 at 08:24 AM.

09-22-2016, 09:22 AM	#9
Kalzazz Join Date: Feb 2009	Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless? I actually haven't bless much . . . the number of pre reqs, the FP cost, and the 'only on others' makes it unpopular Computer programming is very much like religion, you write great swaths of text understandable only to those enlightened in the sacred mysteries, and read through and try to understand the cryptic writings of the long dead ancestors who came before, and each system is a living thing passed through many hands where the original intent is long forgotten Faith is also very important in programming! The Faith Based Testing model is a tried and true approach Programmer,'Hi User! I have made changes to your program, you should test it!' User, 'No, we have faith in you! Just move it to Production'

09-22-2016, 10:05 AM	#10
hal Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Buffalo, New York	Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless? I permit the use of bless to be specific instead of general. " may all your children be born healthy" uses the effects of blessing for childbirth only. "May your sword always defend you well" uses blessing only for parries. "May your aim always be true" when cast on an archer etc. Adds more flavor as it were.