My TL 7-10 semi Post-Apocalyptic Campaign Question Thread

[Ragitsu]

My campaign primarily deals with a TL 8 post-apocalyptic society set in what used to be Europe/Russia with a surprising amount of surviving technology, coupled with regularly appearing TL7 technology on the human side and TL9-10 on the invading alien's side. I will mostly be asking weapon related questions, but every now and again will inquire about something related to survival in general.

So, in the hopes that it will be answered, here is my last unanswered question: can a high quality Romanian PSL be considered equivalent to a Dragunov SVD in terms of game mechanics?

[capnq]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

In short, I decided to create a thread where I can posit all my questions relating to a campaign i'm running. I feel this is better than creating many topics in a short span of time (should I start firing off a burst of random questions), which would bump other's topics down fairly quickly.

In short, you continue to refuse to accept the usual netiquette of these forums, despite repeated explanations of why your way is less useful both to you and to other readers.

"Avoiding bumping other topics down" is NOT a good reason to lump all of your questions into one thread, especially on the GURPS subforum, which routinely produces at least 2-3 pages of active threads daily anyway.

Using descriptive thread titles will draw the attention of people who know the answer to your question, and make it easier for others to find the thread later. (This is especially important for newcomers who haven't learned the quirks of this BBS software's search function.) Generic thread titles will only draw people like me who have the spare time to investigate them.

can a high quality Romanian PSL be considered equivalent to a Dragunov SVD in terms of game mechanics?

I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't be; they're both just 7.62mm sniper rifles, AFAICT. IMO, at GURPS' level of detail, the manufacturer/nation of origin of the gun is just background color. One of the playtesters for the upcoming GURPS Gun Fu might know enough about the two models to correct me if I'm wrong, but they aren't going to know to look at this thread, since you haven't given it a descriptive title.

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by capnq

I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't be; they're both just 7.62mm sniper rifles, AFAICT. IMO, at GURPS' level of detail, the manufacturer/nation of origin of the gun is just background color.

7.62x54mmR I believe. A little different from the 7.62mm NATO equivalent.

The only reason I ask is that a lot of users seem to state the PSL is a "cheaper" or "knockoff" version of the SVD. Based on that, I wonder if it is even possible to have a Fine or Very Fine PSL. Hm...

In any event, thank you for your comment.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

The previous thread can be seen here (though it didn't get any real answers, and was strangely taken off topic fairly fast).

I don't think that is particularly strange.

'Generic Question Thread' is not a topic. That's the problem. If you want threads that stay on topic, title them something that actually does suggest a concrete topic. This helps posters find and answer your questions. It also helps other readers find those answers, in case they have similar questions.

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

In short, I decided to create a thread where I can posit all my questions relating to a campaign i'm running. I feel this is better than creating many topics in a short span of time (should I start firing off a burst of random questions), which would bump other's topics down fairly quickly.

If you want to discuss your current campaign, create a thread with a title that is informative about your current campaign. Such as 'Modern Magic and Gunplay Campaign' or 'TL7 Cold War Campaign'. Anything that will help the majority of readers and posters to quickly identify what your thread is about.

If you proclaim yourself unwilling to title threads in accordance with what questions and answers one is likely to find in them, you're displaying utter indifference to all other posters here. You do not appear to care whether or not the answers to your questions could also help others who might have the same questions.

It is very hard for other posters to feel motivated to provide unpaid research assistance to someone who so clearly does not care about politeness or the interests of others.

I implore you. Please do your best to follow forum etiquette. That includes avoiding bumping your own thread and it most certainly does include informative thread titles.

[Ragitsu]

I will consider that, Icelander.

Edit: Thread title changed.

Edit 2: Odd, the title is changed in thread, but not when viewed on the board amongst the other topics. Anyone know why this is?

[sjard]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Edit 2: Odd, the title is changed in thread, but not when viewed on the board amongst the other topics. Anyone know why this is?

Not sure why it works that way, but I fixed it for you.

[Ragitsu]

Thanks for the adjustment, sjard. I think it has to do with a bit of ancillary coding.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

So, in the hopes that it will be answered, here is my last unanswered question: can a high quality Romanian PSL be considered equivalent to a Dragunov SVD in terms of game mechanics?

There are a few aspects to this question.

First of all, what do you mean by a Dragunov SVD? A vintage Vietnam War era one? A modern Russian made one? A licensed or unlicensed copy? All of these might differ in game stats as much as the PSL might.

Second, let's start with the simple stuff. Both rifles fire the same round and both are reported to achieve the same muzzle velocity when using the special AP round designed for the weapon (7N14, see p. HT167). That means the same range and damage stat.

The weight differences are negliable (and by that I mean less than 5/100 of a pound). That means the same weight. Both are semi-automatic (ROF 3) and both have a 10-round magazine. Since they have the same weight and the same recoil, they have the same ST stat. The Rcl stat is likewise the same and given that their profiles are very similar, the Bulk score is identical.

The Acc number is determined both by pointability and mechanical accuracy. Both appear similar here and even if one was demonstrated to have better mechanical accuracy, it would not be by a wide enough margin to justify a +1/-1 Acc unless it was a really huge difference. Which it isn't. Same Acc.

The Malf. score is interesting. The PSL uses a different and cheaper receiver than the SVD, but that 'cheaper' receiver is simply an adapted RPK receiver. As such, it is derived from the AKM stamped receiver and I'd rate it as superior to the more expensive milled SVD receiver. Still, I'd not think that this is enough to rate a change in Malf.

All in all, I'd say that identical stats are in order. The perceived 'cheapness' of the PSL is due to the availability of the gun in the US compared to genuine Dragunov SVDs, not any defects with the gun itself. Yes, it costs a bit less to make, but that's due to new machining methods which produce superior end results at less cost.

There's certainly a possibility that the PSL you buy in the US today might be inferior to a Dragunov SVD fielded by OMON, but that would be the result of either of poor quality control or a mistake by those reassembling them and fitting the new receivers into them.

As for Fine and Very Fine quality, I'd rule that it's possible for a gunsmith to custom-make nearly any component to get both a Dragunov SVD and a PSL to that level. Very Fine would be extremely unusual, not to say weird, as it kind of defeats the initial purpose of the gun. Nonetheless, someone determined enough and skilled enough would probably be able to pull it off.

Making either Fine might be as simple as a gunsmith going over it, exchanging any components that fit badly and generally coddling it. A stock extender wouldn't be a bad idea for someone of average height or more (unless you intend to use it only while wearing body armour or arctic clothing) and of course both weapons could fit better optics if desired.

[Ragitsu]

Wow. That was very in-depth, Icelander.

I guess you can't always trust the hype and hate gun fans are spreading over the internet these days. Barring the minor issue of compatible parts between the PSL and SVD (which, by the way, are modern day SVDs produced in the same timeframe as the aforementioned Romanian version), I don't think there shall be any issues when the PCs discovers this "treasure" considering where it will be found.

Thank you!

Speaking of GURP's level of resolution: I take it custom scope reticles are typically minor enough to where they don't factor in?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Barring the minor issue of compatible parts between the PSL and SVD

There are none, if you except the scope and other optics (the optic mounts are compatible).

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

(which, by the way, are modern day SVDs produced in the same timeframe as the aforementioned Romanian version),

The SVD has been made from 1963 in Russia and licensed and unlicensed copies are rather widespread (note that the PLS is not a copy, just a rifle with a very similar tactical role).

The PLS started production in the 1970s.

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Speaking of GURP's level of resolution: I take it custom scope reticles are typically minor enough to where they don't factor in?

That's right.

Although Weapon Bond is one realistic way to portray a character that has set up a gun 'just right' so that it fits his physique, shooting style and prefered aiming style. Someone who likes a certain style of Horus Vision reticles could well order a scope made with that one as part of building a Very Fine rifle that he has Weapon Bond with.