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Old 05-07-2009, 10:02 PM   #21
Kaldrin
 
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Default Re: Sniper and Medic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragitsu
I figured as much :-D. The smallest targets I anticipate them having to shoot will be crow/cat sized (xenofauna).
I just wrote up a space marine sniper for an upcoming campaign that can, in good light with reasonable air conditions, hit a human in the vitals at 10,000 hexes away. This requires about 90 seconds of aiming though.


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If you don't mind another question (I mean it this time. Promise!), here it is: usually, how much does HP rise above HT in the average cinematic campaign? Are there any other rules that will facilitate this campaign where the PCs are out on their own for up to days at a time and need to be especially resilient (in general. I am aware of Advantages such as Hard to Kill) to survive battles against troops, the occasional vehicle and always lurking "monster"?

I like being able to scale back to "realism" when needed, but not have it at the forefront of the campaign's feel.
Well, according to RAW you can raise the hp 30% above ST, up to 100% more with a 'special exercises' perk. However, I wouldn't concentrate on just getting a boatload of hp. In GURPS you'll want to focus on higher defenses for cinematic games. Defenses are 100% mitigation. Luck can take care of criticals against them. There's really a lot of other things they can do to seem like big time heroes.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: Sniper and Medic

That sounds fine for most encounters, but how does one make an NPC sniper or sharpshooter challenging without having them systematically decimate a group?

How do vehicles and artillery stay lethal yet avoidable with the current HP rules?

I'm coming from a mostly d20 RPG background, so the transition from up to 150 or so HP for a high end character to 10-20 HP for most high end GURPS characters is a bit daunting to say the least.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: Sniper and Medic

Equipment helps a lot as noted, sniper fire is special condition stuff.
i would also look at Zen Archery for guns.
And luck is pretty good, you wont be doing that many sniper shots so it can cover them with the basic level.
or Super Luck limited to only Sniper shots would really be awesome.
I can see it getting a -80%due to the very specific circumstances.

And to the mundane skills please add breath control and possibly meditation.
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Old 05-07-2009, 11:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: Sniper and Medic

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Originally Posted by Ragitsu
That sounds fine for most encounters, but how does one make an NPC sniper or sharpshooter challenging without having them systematically decimate a group?
Cover. Give them a 'warning shot' or someone gets hit in the arm or leg and gets crippled so the rest of the group has to either hunker down in cover or go hunting the sniper via stealth, camoflage or other skills. There are devices in higher tech levels that will actually tell you the trajectory of the bullet... so you know more or less where the sniper was when he shot.

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How do vehicles and artillery stay lethal yet avoidable with the current HP rules?
There are infantry armours out there that can take a good hit, but in general GURPS is based of realism and realistically foot soldiers get wasted when they go up against armour or artillery. You'd have to give them lots of warning to allow them the tactical choices to enable them to not just get shot at if you didn't armour them to the hilt.


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I'm coming from a mostly d20 RPG background, so the transition from up to 150 or so HP for a high end character to 10-20 HP for most high end GURPS characters is a bit daunting to say the least.
In d20 characters don't get defense rolls though. Remember too that in d20 characters are dead at 0 or -10 depending on which rule you use. In GURPS there is a significant threshold before death is assured. There's a lot of difference in game mechanics between the two systems. Things that can affect surviving in GURPS are defense rolls, advantages, skill rolls... the lot of it.

You could have a guy who has a perception of 15, danger sense and a decent move and dodge score and he could conceivably find cover before the artillery even hits, negating the attack before it was even rolled.
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Old 05-07-2009, 11:22 PM   #25
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Default Re: Sniper and Medic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragitsu
I'm coming from a mostly d20 RPG background, so the transition from up to 150 or so HP for a high end character to 10-20 HP for most high end GURPS characters is a bit daunting to say the least.
Generally, you survive in a GURPS game the same way you survive in real life. I don't know anything about countering snipers, but high-tech small unit combat is often more about superior tactics than superior firepower. Your party is going to want to stay out of sight if possible; if they can't do that, they'll want to act on good intel (where is the enemy, and what's the best way to kill them?) and/or with as much backup as possible. Think of it like a chess game.

Of course, depending on how badassed the PCs are, and what kinds of cinematic options you allow them (flesh wounds, buying successes, high levels of Luck, etc), they may be able to survive being thrown into the kinds of dangerous situations where people in real life mostly get killed.

Also keep in mind that GURPS characters can survive well into negative HPs, especially if they have effective HT 14+ when making those consciousness checks and death checks. They're fragile, but not as fragile as you think. The reason I mention this last is that even if you survive taking, say, 40 points of damage, you'll still be out of action for a long time without some kind of magic or superscience healing.. so it's better to avoid it if you can.
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:00 AM   #26
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Default Re: Sniper and Medic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragitsu
How do vehicles and artillery stay lethal yet avoidable with the current HP rules?
You make sure never to take fire from vehicular weapons if there's any real risk of them hitting you. Ideally, never take fire from vehicular weapons period. Surprise them and shoot them from behind with an IML. Two IMLs. With another in reserve. Make it two MLAWS.

...Don't give the tank anything that could be imagined as a fair shot. It probably has more than 3 times your armor, 8 times your HP, and a good fraction of your team's total firepower.

Artillery is going to randomly kill and maim PCs caught in it, just like it does to real people, unless they have good dodge backed up by luck or other cinematic last-ditch defenses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragitsu
I'm coming from a mostly d20 RPG background, so the transition from up to 150 or so HP for a high end character to 10-20 HP for most high end GURPS characters is a bit daunting to say the least.
HP just aren't a good defense against modern weapon technologies. It's way too easy to take 7d to the vitals, which might not kill you (if you're tough and get either good medical care or no gritty wounding rules), but will mess you up in a very lasting way. Even with UT armor, serious attackers will take you down very fast if you're not avoiding getting hit.
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:09 AM   #27
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Default Re: Sniper and Medic

Food for thought.

I hope I can balance the heroic fuel against the nitty gritty of human physiology.
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Old 05-08-2009, 05:40 AM   #28
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Default Re: Sniper and Medic

Artillery: If the shell is not really exactly at your location dropping is a good defense against the real killer: fragments.

Veteran troops tend to be good at hearing incoming arty and dropping in time. (Mostly an effect of combat reflexes giving them a no freeze time so they get the dodge defense)

Also having any sort of helmet and bodyarmor helps survivability a lot as hits to torso and head are the ones most likely to kill you.

Tanks: Modern tanks are annoying in that they have good mobility, thermal vision and incredibly good frontal armor, with tanks deployed to streetfighting usually having ERA or other suplememenatal side/rear armor against anti-tank weapons.

Best weapons against them are Combat helicopters, Other tanks and heavy antitank weapons from rear. But they are a pain..

Against snipers: the only defenses against first shots are really: not be detected(Stealth mostly), Hope the sniper misses or does not do any/much damage on first shot(Aided by cinematic combat rules, armor and use of cover) or detecticting the sniper first(not likely...)

After they shoot the first shot the characters can get cover and such, after that it is down to tactics(move and fire and such) to flank or otherwise take control of the situation until you either use a heavy weapon to take out the sniper(prefered method) or shoot him..

As for sniper character: As Icelander says a skill of 18-20 should be more than enough for a sniper as long as they have the supporting stuff in place. (Precision aiming, good sniper weapon and scope and such)

Medic char: Using the normal rules without super science a good medic can heal few HP/wound(1d+1 at TL9+), make most seriously wounded ones survive and help the slow recovery of wounds to be faster(+2 hp/day and giving +1 to the natural recovery). For cinematic medics you either need to give them gear that heals better or give them some "magic" healing. A possible thing could be some ultra tech device/drugs that give the regeneration advantage for a given time period.

General survivability: High dodge, luck and bodyarmor are the main ways if you are actually shot at. To avoid being shot at: Stealth, camouflage and tactics. If actually hit: high HT and hard to kill. HP is way less important as rifles do enough damage if you do not have heavy enough armor..
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Old 05-08-2009, 06:23 AM   #29
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Default Re: Sniper and Medic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald387
There are no built-in limits to how high character skills can go. Many GMs place limits, though - 'Controlling Attribute +5', 'Controlling Attribute +10', and 'No higher than 20' are all examples I've seen.

Reliably shooting a fly (SM -14) at dusk (Lighting penalty -5) from a half-mile away (can't be arsed to find out how many feet there are in a mile; call it 500 meters for a half-kilometer, or a range penalty of -14) would require Guns (Rifle)-49.
Zen marksmanship gets that to a -17. So it could be done.
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Old 05-08-2009, 06:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: Sniper and Medic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragitsu
That sounds fine for most encounters, but how does one make an NPC sniper or sharpshooter challenging without having them systematically decimate a group?
Danger sense.

A little precognition can go a long way.
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