[Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

and as a Squad in high-tech+.

3 fireteams of 4 each + a headquarters element of 4 is 16 people.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

3 fireteams of 4 each + a headquarters element of 4 is 16 people.

That's weird. I envisioned squads as typically consisting of 2 fireteams, usually 5 people each (for militaries where a squad isn't the lowest tactical unit). Not doubting your knowledge, just surprised.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

That's weird. I envisioned squads as typically consisting of 2 fireteams, usually 5 people each (for militaries where a squad isn't the lowest tactical unit). Not doubting your knowledge, just surprised.

The USMC always divides elements into threes. Three Fireteams in a squad. Three Squads in a Platoon. Three Platoons in a Company. Three Companies in a Regiment. This facilitates mission-by-element: Support, Security, Assault. Fireteams are four: Leader, Rifleman, Automatic Rifleman, and Assistant Automatic Rifleman.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Now, there's the Super-Soldier feature, which can be expressed with at least one template, so that:
Super-Soldier Template + Average Soldier Template == Average Super-Soldiers.
Super-Soldier Template + Good Soldier Template == Good Super-Soldiers
Super-Soldier Template + SEAL Template == Élite Super-Soldiers

Super-Soldier Template + Poor Soldier Template == This

Spartans from Halo would be a good basis for a super-soldier. Truly exceptional individuals (like John-117) would be a Hero unit. And then Caboose... I guess Disloyal, but not intentionally so.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

You always divide elements into threes. Three Fireteams in a squad. Three Squads in a Platoon. Three Platoons in a Company. Three Companies in a Regiment. This facilitates mission-by-element: Support, Security, Assault. Fireteams are four: Leader, Rifleman, Automatic Rifleman, and Assistant Automatic Rifleman.

Always? Checking the Red Army Fighter's Manual, it says that the Squad ['отделение'] is the smallest organizational unit of infantry. Wiki also seems to indicate it's commonly the smallest unit in non-Anglophone, and especially non-NATO states (as long as one could trust it). Perhaps military organization is not as uniform throughout the world as would be convenient.

Now that I think of it, I wonder how good the info on various infantrymen in a squad would I get by skimming G:WWII, given that its templates are written in 3e-ese.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Always?

Ok, not always. I meant that in the tactical and operational doctrine in which I was trained it was always thus. The end result as far as it's relevant to this thread is that a infantry squad can have 16 individuals.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Ok, not always. I meant that in the tactical and operational doctrine in which I was trained it was always thus. The end result as far as it's relevant to this thread is that a infantry squad can have 16 individuals.

US Marines use a 3*4+1 squad, US Army uses a 2*4+1 squad (in order to fit in a Bradley).

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by RyanW

US Marines use a 3*4+1 squad, US Army uses a 2*4+1 squad (in order to fit in a Bradley).

Sure, isn't that what I said? It's certainly what I meant.

EDIT: My entire point was that a squad can be more than 15 and it doesn't break the Mass Combat system to do so. That's all.

[Lamech]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Well, I doubt there is a reason why you can't keep training whatever Super-Soldiers you have up to Élite level. The question is, what is required to make a Super-Soldier in the first place*. A Riflemen squad has a base cost of 60k to Raise, and the Super-Soldier feature adds +200% to that cost, which means that for a mass-production sort of program, a single Super-Soldier costs +$12k per person modified. Seems a bit low, given the prices of biomods and cybermods in the techbooks.

You probably get some sort of discount for mass production and assembly lines. But more to the point mass combat's prices are for balance, not meshing with bio-tech. Assume that if you buy enough effective bio-mods and after the "assembly line discount" it comes to the +200% price increase its enough to bump that squad up to super-soldier quality.
Edit: Also anything made with bio-tech wouldn't really have an increased maintain cost. So you could charge extra for that feature. Increased start up cost, but reduced maintain cost. Finally you could count bio-mods as extra quality equipment or training... or even just say they have a higher TS. I think the biggest problem is mass-combat is made for balance of big armies with lots of abstraction, while bio-tech was made for characters. And they weren't supposed to be combined...

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Lamech

You probably get some sort of discount for mass production and assembly lines. But more to the point mass combat's prices are for balance, not meshing with bio-tech. Assume that if you buy enough effective bio-mods and after the "assembly line discount" it comes to the +200% price increase its enough to bump that squad up to super-soldier quality.

Well, sure, there is some multiplier for organized, efficient mass-production, but just how high can we expect it to be?

Originally Posted by Lamech

Edit: Also anything made with bio-tech wouldn't really have an increased maintain cost. So you could charge extra for that feature. Increased start up cost, but reduced maintain cost. Finally you could count bio-mods as extra quality equipment or training... or even just say they have a higher TS.

Come to think of it, nanomods (e.g. as in Deus Ex) shouldn't require higher maintenance either. It's just that MC doesn't have a modifier for reduced maintenance, nor one for regeneration of TS after combat (only GM tips for it).

Originally Posted by Lamech

I think the biggest problem is mass-combat is made for balance of big armies with lots of abstraction, while bio-tech was made for characters. And they weren't supposed to be combined...

In a way, yes (though MC has clearly imbalanced elements, such as amphibious warriors or something in that part). But I was looking towards the MC prices not as rigid limits. Rather, I was hoping that prices might be used as a guideline to finding the difference between a human average, super-soldier average, human élite and super-soldier élite.

Basically, imagine a PC encountering (as an ally or enemy) or even being one of these. I'm trying to figure out what would the traits be like.