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Old 02-09-2018, 02:57 AM   #1
mhd
 
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Default Warping back and forth

So I want to warp between two points: One fixed, one flexible. This means that I can jump to my "home" location and then back again.

I thought about using the Anchored limitation, but this poses the additional trouble that it only works for a rather limited set of modifiers, for a reason I can't quite discern (e.g. I might want to add a Tunnel to this).

Right now I'm thinking about ignoring said restriction and either halving the final value, or having two Warps (Anchored: one spot/Anchored: last departue point) as Alternate Abilities.

I think the Lord of Your Own Domain has a similar setup for Jumper, but built in to the advantage itself...
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Old 02-09-2018, 04:29 AM   #2
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Default Re: Warping back and forth

Most of the special modifiers don't make sense to me with Anchored, but Tunnel might be an exception. No conflict springs to mind for me (though maybe it's just too early).

Keep in mind that Anchored does not allow you to teleport anywhere _from_ your one site. It restricts the teleport always to go to the anchor, never anywhere else. It's a one-way trip home, not a teleport hub. You might build an outgoing power with Special Portal (your home site), and AA that with the return ability with Anchored (both -80%).
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Old 02-09-2018, 08:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: Warping back and forth

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
You might build an outgoing power with Special Portal (your home site), and AA that with the return ability with Anchored (both -80%).
You've got the right idea with Special Portal and Anchored, I think, but rather than an Alternate Ability build, I'd say this is a case of Either/Or limitations. I'd argue, by the way, that for Special Portal, "only from my home base, but it works all the time" is not worth -80%. I'd price it at -40% instead. So, for "Either Anchored, my home base, or Special Portal, my home base", the limitation value would work out to -32% (which I'd round to -30%). That sounds about right for Warp that always takes at least two jumps to get anywhere.

I'd definitely agree that Tunnel should be compatible with Anchored, by the way.
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:52 AM   #4
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Default Re: Warping back and forth

I'd rate an ability where you just have to go via your homebase as more of a nuisance factor, -10% at most.

Not that this is what I wanted, just a way to get from point X to point H(omebase) and then back from H to X (not from H to anywhere, nor from anywhere to X).

And by the way, while H would qualify for the -80% Anchored version, X wouldn't.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: Warping back and forth

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Originally Posted by mhd View Post
I'd rate an ability where you just have to go via your homebase as more of a nuisance factor, -10% at most.
I think it's a bit bigger (the -30% I quoted seems right), because if you can't warp to your home base from where you are (whether it's effectively out of range, cut off by Warp Storms, or whatever), you basically can't warp anywhere. That feels a bit more significant than -10%, to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhd
Not that this is what I wanted, just a way to get from point X to point H(omebase) and then back from H to X (not from H to anywhere, nor from anywhere to X).
Ok, I'm still slightly confused here, I think. Are you talking about 1) you can warp from one specific point to another specific point, but only ever those two points? Or 2) you can warp to your home base from any point. Once you do, you can warp back from your home base to that specific point, but nowhere else. However, if you physically travel to another point then warp back to your home base from there, that "resets" your warp, and now you can only warp from your home base to that new point?

If it's the first, that's a very specific Special Portal situation, I'd say. I'd call that even more limiting than the -80% given in powers. I'd price it at -100%, though the usual rules about total modifiers not exceeding -80% would still apply, so you could just stack on +20% in enhancements if you were taking that.

If it's the second, that's definitely a bit trickier. I think Either/Or limitations is still the way to go, with Anchored as one of them, but the other would be an Accessibility limitation instead, "only to the last place I warped to". That's tricky to price, but I'd eyeball it as -80%. Arguably, it could be -100%, but I'm estimating conservatively (particularly since -100% doesn't work well in Either/Or constructions). Plugging those values into the Either/Or construct with Anchored gets you a limitation value of -64%, which I'd round to -65%.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:27 AM   #6
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Default Re: Warping back and forth

Just eyeballing the thing, I'd call it about a -50% limitation on Warp. It looks to me to be about as useful as that specific version (the -50% one) of Anchored.

I don't understand why Anchored is incompatible with Tunnel, but the list in Powers is definite. No problem with ignoring that restriction, but I wouldn't mind hearing about the reasoning for it from Kromm.

Didn't we discuss a Limited Destinations mod for Warp at some point? I thought I remembered such, but I can't find it *fuzz*
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: Warping back and forth

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
I don't understand why Anchored is incompatible with Tunnel, but the list in Powers is definite. No problem with ignoring that restriction, but I wouldn't mind hearing about the reasoning for it from Kromm.
Personally, I suspect the restriction in Powers is worded the way it is because most existing special modifiers for Warp in the Basic Set and Powers are incompatible with Anchored (Blind, Warp Jump, Hyperjump with most anchors, Range Limit, and from Powers, Blink, Tracking, Blind Only, Drift, Projection, and Special Portal). It was probably worded that way to avoid a large wordcount-eating list, and Tunnel was just mistakenly left out of the exceptions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
If it's the second, that's definitely a bit trickier. I think Either/Or limitations is still the way to go, with Anchored as one of them, but the other would be an Accessibility limitation instead, "only to the last place I warped to".
Actually, disregard this - I just noticed that in Powers, Anchored to one place, but you can change what the place is by spending a minute there, is worth -50%. So that's what I'd use for the value of the "can only warp to the place you've most recently been", and the Either/Or limitation would become Either Anchored, my home base, -80%, or Anchored, place I've been before, -50%, for a final value of -40%. In this case, I think it's reasonable to replace the "must be there for a minute to change locations" restriction to "must successfully Warp to home base from there", since Warp isn't guaranteed.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:35 AM   #8
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Default Re: Warping back and forth

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Originally Posted by mhd View Post
So I want to warp between two points: One fixed, one flexible. This means that I can jump to my "home" location and then back again.
So... a "Town Portal Scroll" style teleport (ala the Diablo game and it's clones)?

Interesting, I have nothing to add, but I'm taking notes.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Warping back and forth

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a "Town Portal Scroll" style teleport ala the Diablo game... I have nothing to add, but I'm taking notes.
Stay a while, and listen! Kelly's doing a fine job.

Either/Or does make sense in this case. AA'ing a version of an ability with itself feels a bit weird.
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