GURPS Old West - Page 4

hal · 11-30-2018, 03:56 PM

Another good link to look at if you want real life data - contains the information in the book THE PRAIRIE TRAVELER published in 1859.

Really nifty information if you ask me...

The link to webpage is HERE if you want to view it.

The bulk of the information is for pioneers who intended to travel from East to West. In addition, the author listed the miles between stops for some of the routes involved such as From Fort Smith, Arkansas, to Santa Fe and Albuquerque, New Mexico. If as gm, you wished to run an Oregon Trail style adventure, this would be ideal for your use.

Here is a sample of the first two entries of that journey to give you an idea of just how useful it can be for the gm in question. The number is miles, and the description follows. In a way, it makes me think of the mapquest method of telling a driver how far to travel and where to turn. This tells you how far to travel and what to expect at that point.

Miles Fort Smith to
15. Strickland's Farm.--The road crosses the Poteau River
at Fort Smith, where there is a ferry; it then
follows the Poteau bottom for ten miles. This part of
the road is very muddy after heavy rains. At 14 miles
it passes the Choctaw Agency, where there are several
stores. There is the greatest abundance of wood,
water, and grass at all camps for the first 200
miles. Where any of these are wanting it will be
specially mentioned. The road passes through the
Choctaw settlements for about l50 miles, and corn and
supplies can be purchased from these Indians at
reasonable rates.

11. Camp Creek.- Road crosses a prairie of three miles in
length, then enters a heavy forest. The camp is on a
small branch, with grass plenty in a small prairie
about 400 yards to the left of the road.

All of the other "Treasure trove of facts" are sufficient for any GM to think that it is ideal for their needs. :)

Black Leviathan · 11-30-2018, 04:34 PM

We did a weird west game set in 1865. It was before the recognition of the Nebraska and Kansas Territories into States, but just enough after the Civil War for tempers to still be hot. Intercontinental Railroad has just been finished, big cities are still growing but there are still plentiful towns. I cheated the guns by a few years because single-action shootouts aren't super exciting.

hal · 11-30-2018, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

We did a weird west game set in 1865. It was before the recognition of the Nebraska and Kansas Territories into States, but just enough after the Civil War for tempers to still be hot. Intercontinental Railroad has just been finished, big cities are still growing but there are still plentiful towns. I cheated the guns by a few years because single-action shootouts aren't super exciting.

If you want to have fun? Take a look at the "alternate universe" of Aces and Eights. There, the civil war starts 10 years earlier, but the technological advancement for gun technology is VERY fast. TOO fast in my opinion, but hey, they (the creators of A&8's) wanted to be able to include various guns and concepts.

hal · 12-04-2018, 09:55 PM

Adding more goodies after researching material from the 1880 census...

Agricultural Laborers: 13,539
Farmers and planters: 2,540
Gardeners, Nurserymen and vine growers: 254
Stock raisers, drovers, and herders: 4,068
Barbers and hairdressers: 398
Boarding and lodging house keepers: 415
Clergymen: 234
Clerks and copyists (not specified): 54
Dentists: 94
Domestic Servants: 2,575
Hotel and restaurant keepers and employees: 2358
Journalists: 152
Laborers: 12,902
Launderers and laundresses: 746
Lawyers: 807
Livery-stable keepers and hostlers: 527
Musicians and teachers of music: 260
Officials and employees (Civil) of government: 734
Physicians and surgeons: 570
Teachers: 580

There is more, but you can get some pretty specific information from the pdf that you can download. The place to get it would be from Wikipedia after doing a search on Census of the United States.

Need the populations of specific townships? Name/county partial listing below for the state of Colorado 1880:

Alamosa/Conejos: 802
Denver/Arapahoe: 35,629 (I think it is 629, it is slightly illegible in the PDF)
Littleton/Arapahoe: 100
Maysville/Shaffee: 561

All sorts of good stuff there if you take the time to sift through it for information. Point is - it is a free resource that you can put to good use if you wish. If you go the route of using google maps and getting an idea of the lay of the land via satellite pictures - might even be more information for you.

:)

Astromancer · 12-05-2018, 10:14 AM

An interesting place to set a campaign up in the Old West might be aTerritorial University. You've had a wide variety of ambitious young people (some Territorial Universities were co-ed well ahead of the curve) and the scholars would bring in a wide range of interesting story hooks too.

PCs, let's assume Cowhands trying to switch to better less bone breaking jobs, could hunt dinosaur fossils one week and deal with feuding theatrical companies the next. Hunting for Spanish treasure, Native American relics, or rare plants, could take PCs all over the West.

acrosome · 12-05-2018, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I think that argues nothing but your unfamiliarity with El Paso in 1895. People were being shot as frequently there and then as at any time and place west of the Mississippi after the Civil War.

So, as proof that "The West" was still a wild place you point to one border town?

As I said, crime still happened. Heck, Butch Cassidy didn't flee the country until 1901. And Tom Horn shot his last sheep rancher in the same year. (And was convicted of it the next year- arguably the beginning of the end for the cattle barons.) But nonetheless it wasn't really the same any more. If you really backed me against the wall I might put its end at at the Johnson County War and Pleasant Valley War in 1892. I think those were the last large-scale lawless events. There was an Indian revolt in 1896 but it was in Sonora, not the U.S. After 1892 yes robberies and assassinations still happened, but there was just too much law around to call the West truly wild. Heck, in 1893 women were voting in Colorado! Gasp!

Obviously, yes, this is an absolutely objective call. You are allowed to disagree.

Fred Brackin · 12-05-2018, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acrosome

S

Obviously, yes, this is an absolutely objective call. You are allowed to disagree.

Well isn't that big of you! :)

Again though, when the Sherrif shoots people in the back of the head because he thinks they are too dangerous to live (and escapes punishment for doing so) that's more than "crime". Or perhaps less than law and order. It certainly isn't excessive civilization.

Astromancer · 12-05-2018, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acrosome

So, as proof that "The West" was still a wild place you point to one border town?

As I said, crime still happened. Heck, Butch Cassidy didn't flee the country until 1901. And Tom Horn shot his last sheep rancher in the same year. (And was convicted of it the next year- arguably the beginning of the end for the cattle barons.) But nonetheless it wasn't really the same any more. If you really backed me against the wall I might put its end at at the Johnson County War and Pleasant Valley War in 1892. I think those were the last large-scale lawless events. There was an Indian revolt in 1896 but it was in Sonora, not the U.S. After 1892 yes robberies and assassinations still happened, but there was just too much law around to call the West truly wild. Heck, in 1893 women were voting in Colorado! Gasp!

Obviously, yes, this is an absolutely objective call. You are allowed to disagree.

But are Westerns strictly about the Wild West? My Darling Clementine, The Searchers, Red River, High Noon, The Furies, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, and The Toll Gate, all truly great westerns, are all about civilization and civilized values. Taming the land and building communities, leaving one society and finding your place in the new society, the price of both law and lawlessness, these are the themes of the western. Certainly, later Westerns shifted emphasis but works like Cat Ballou, The Ballad of Josey, or Support Your Local Sheriff! all have serious things to say about individuals and society. The Western genre isn't primarily about lawlessness, it's about society.

hal · 12-09-2018, 07:26 PM

For those who enjoy Youtube at all, Have Gun Will Travel episodes are available for viewing.

:)

Astromancer · 12-09-2018, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal

For those who enjoy Youtube at all, Have Gun Will Travel episodes are available for viewing.

:)

I'm a Maverick fan myself.

11-30-2018, 03:56 PM	#31
hal Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Buffalo, New York	Re: GURPS Old West Another good link to look at if you want real life data - contains the information in the book THE PRAIRIE TRAVELER published in 1859. Really nifty information if you ask me... The link to webpage is HERE if you want to view it. The bulk of the information is for pioneers who intended to travel from East to West. In addition, the author listed the miles between stops for some of the routes involved such as From Fort Smith, Arkansas, to Santa Fe and Albuquerque, New Mexico. If as gm, you wished to run an Oregon Trail style adventure, this would be ideal for your use. Here is a sample of the first two entries of that journey to give you an idea of just how useful it can be for the gm in question. The number is miles, and the description follows. In a way, it makes me think of the mapquest method of telling a driver how far to travel and where to turn. This tells you how far to travel and what to expect at that point. Miles Fort Smith to 15. Strickland's Farm.--The road crosses the Poteau River at Fort Smith, where there is a ferry; it then follows the Poteau bottom for ten miles. This part of the road is very muddy after heavy rains. At 14 miles it passes the Choctaw Agency, where there are several stores. There is the greatest abundance of wood, water, and grass at all camps for the first 200 miles. Where any of these are wanting it will be specially mentioned. The road passes through the Choctaw settlements for about l50 miles, and corn and supplies can be purchased from these Indians at reasonable rates. 11. Camp Creek.- Road crosses a prairie of three miles in length, then enters a heavy forest. The camp is on a small branch, with grass plenty in a small prairie about 400 yards to the left of the road. All of the other "Treasure trove of facts" are sufficient for any GM to think that it is ideal for their needs. :)

11-30-2018, 04:34 PM	#32
Black Leviathan Join Date: Sep 2018	Re: GURPS Old West We did a weird west game set in 1865. It was before the recognition of the Nebraska and Kansas Territories into States, but just enough after the Civil War for tempers to still be hot. Intercontinental Railroad has just been finished, big cities are still growing but there are still plentiful towns. I cheated the guns by a few years because single-action shootouts aren't super exciting.

12-04-2018, 09:55 PM	#34
hal Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Buffalo, New York	Re: GURPS Old West Adding more goodies after researching material from the 1880 census... Agricultural Laborers: 13,539 Farmers and planters: 2,540 Gardeners, Nurserymen and vine growers: 254 Stock raisers, drovers, and herders: 4,068 Barbers and hairdressers: 398 Boarding and lodging house keepers: 415 Clergymen: 234 Clerks and copyists (not specified): 54 Dentists: 94 Domestic Servants: 2,575 Hotel and restaurant keepers and employees: 2358 Journalists: 152 Laborers: 12,902 Launderers and laundresses: 746 Lawyers: 807 Livery-stable keepers and hostlers: 527 Musicians and teachers of music: 260 Officials and employees (Civil) of government: 734 Physicians and surgeons: 570 Teachers: 580 There is more, but you can get some pretty specific information from the pdf that you can download. The place to get it would be from Wikipedia after doing a search on Census of the United States. Need the populations of specific townships? Name/county partial listing below for the state of Colorado 1880: Alamosa/Conejos: 802 Denver/Arapahoe: 35,629 (I think it is 629, it is slightly illegible in the PDF) Littleton/Arapahoe: 100 Maysville/Shaffee: 561 All sorts of good stuff there if you take the time to sift through it for information. Point is - it is a free resource that you can put to good use if you wish. If you go the route of using google maps and getting an idea of the lay of the land via satellite pictures - might even be more information for you. :)

12-05-2018, 10:14 AM	#35
Astromancer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: West Virginia	Re: GURPS Old West An interesting place to set a campaign up in the Old West might be aTerritorial University. You've had a wide variety of ambitious young people (some Territorial Universities were co-ed well ahead of the curve) and the scholars would bring in a wide range of interesting story hooks too. PCs, let's assume Cowhands trying to switch to better less bone breaking jobs, could hunt dinosaur fossils one week and deal with feuding theatrical companies the next. Hunting for Spanish treasure, Native American relics, or rare plants, could take PCs all over the West. __________________ Per Ardua Per Astra! Ancora Imparo

12-09-2018, 07:26 PM	#39
hal Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Buffalo, New York	Re: GURPS Old West For those who enjoy Youtube at all, Have Gun Will Travel episodes are available for viewing. :)