Temporary Wounding Limitation

[Varyon]

I've made some mention of this in the past, but how would one build an attack where some or all of the damage involved only lasts for an exceedingly short time? For example, in many settings illusory attacks can kill/incapacitate a victim, but the damage itself either vanishes entirely or is greatly reduced after a few seconds. For my own purposes, I'm working on a weapon that attacks the soul, but in this setting souls are incredibly resilient things so if you don't manage to kill the target outright they tend to spring back rather readily.
(And, yes, I do need point values for the weapon in question.)

I'm thinking this would be best handled by a new damage Limitation: Temporary Wounding. Ideally, there would be a few tiers of the Limitation, representing how long the injury persists before vanishing. As true No Wounding typically between -60% and -70% (No Wounding + No Incendiary Effect for Burning for -60%, No Wounding + No Blunt Trauma or No DR Reduction for just about everything else), I'm thinking Temporary Wounding (which applies to all aspects of the damage - Incendiary effect for Burning, DR reduction for Corrosion, Blunt Trauma for just about everything else) would be worth -50% if it's only an instantaneous effect - you roll damage to see the severity, resolve that (so if you roll over 50% HP, the target has to resist Knockdown/Stunning, for example), and then the damage is gone. Something that lasts a full second - allowing it to temporarily "stack" with subsequent attacks and for effects like being below 1/3rd HP to apply - is probably around -40%. Lasting up to 3 seconds is -30%, up to 10 seconds is -20%, and up to 30 seconds (pretty much "this battle") is -10%. Damage that lasts up to a minute might be justifiable at -5%, and anything longer is going to be a Feature - foes recover more readily, but that means it's a bit easier to capture them without mortally wounding them first. How does this sound to people?

For the nitty-gritty of precisely what "temporary wounding" means, here's what happens when the damage's duration runs out. Any Shock penalties that were inflicted don't vanish (note this only matters for the -50% version). Most statuses that are normally inflicted by damage, such as Knockdown/Stunning, Crippled/Severed Limbs, Unconsciousness (from failing the HT roll from dropping below 0 HP), and Death, also don't vanish, unless naturally recovering the HP would have eliminated the condition (so Temporary Crippling vanishes, for example). Statuses that are more ongoing than the mere binary switches from above or that result from being at a given threshold of injury - reduced Move, continual HT checks to avoid unconsciousness, pain, lasting injuries, Mortal Wounds, etc - do vanish when the duration expires. Bleeding shouldn't be a factor with the above short time periods, but if it is (possibly due to houserules) any blood loss is also temporary (you can make the blood loss permanent as a +5% Enhancement; this means any lost blood stays lost, but bleeding stops when the duration expires). If the attack also has Symptoms, those end when the damage expires, so be certain to apply Limiting Enhancements to Symptoms.

[Christopher R. Rice]

I'd call it about +10%. I'd say you could break it up into: "Cosmic, Attack can heal damage, +50%" + "No Wounding, -50%" + "Selectivity, +10%."

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I'd call it about +10%. I'd say you could break it up into: "Cosmic, Attack can heal damage, +50%" + "No Wounding, -50%" + "Selectivity, +10%."

That could arguably work alright for a power where the user sets a time period for the damage to persist when attacking, but that isn't at all what I'm looking for.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Varyon

That could arguably work alright for a power where the user sets a time period for the damage to persist when attacking, but that isn't at all what I'm looking for.

I put it at +10% because Cancellation for Affliction is +10% and allows you to end it prematurely. You could also just use Illusion with a form of Stigmata plus No Wounding. You might need to make a ability with linked Healing then. Since that's typically the only way you can heal damage someone has taken. I'd compare a modified version of Healing to the average cost of Innate Attacks per die (about 6.45/die) and then figure a enhancement from there. Because it IS a enhancement. Being able to hurt your target and then heal them of the damage you inflicted could be used in all number of ways. So maybe something like...


Healing (Accessibility, Only to heal damage inflicted by attack, -100%; Injuries only, -20%; Regulatable Limitation, Inflict skill penalties instead of costing FP*, +5%; Xenohealing, all life found on the planet, +40%) [8]

* This is normally something that would be a feature. Instead of costing FP to heal, you'd take a -1 to your roll per HP healed. Regulatable Limitation (from Pyramid #3/46: Weird Science) allows you to turn this feature on or off so you can spend FP or take a kill penalty.

That gives a enhancement of about +20%. So I'd write it up as something like...

Healable Injury: This enhancement allows you to heal injury you've inflicted on your target with your attack. This requires a IQ roll at -1 per HP inflicted or by spending 1 FP per 2 HP inflicted. Success means the target gain back that number of HP lost; critical failure restores all HP lost. Failure means nothing happens, while critical failure results in losing 1d more HP. This enhancement is worth +20%. If you don't have to roll at all and injury returns automatically at a rate of (IQ-3) then this costs +40% instead. Subtract -5% if you must wait 1d+1 seconds after you attack (or twice as long for abilities that take less than five seconds to use), -10% if you must wait 4d+3 seconds (or 5 times as long), -20% if you must wait 1dx10 minutes (or 10 times as long).

So your Illusory attack would have "Healable Injury, Automatic after 1d+1 seconds, +35%"

[McAllister]

I'm pretty sure Varyon is looking for a limitation that represents damage that will heal on its own whether the person who inflicted it wants to or not. Traditionally, when I deal damage, I'd like for it to stay dealt, so this strikes me as limitation.

I'm ok with -50% for no-duration damage, but I think the value should plummet from there. -30% for one second, -20% for five seconds, -10% for thirty seconds, -5% for five minutes. Once you can stack it within a fight, it's not much of a limitation.

Also, are you sure a broken arm should stay broken? You'd have to really nail down what's being represented when damage disappears but crippling remains.

[Varyon]

Sorry, Ghostdancer, but I'm afraid we'll simply have to agree to disagree on this one. I do not see damage being temporary as an Enhancement. There are some advantages, I'll admit, but I think the shortcomings more than balance them out.

Let's first consider my -50% version, where the effect is instantaneous. Below the Crippling/Major Wound threshold, you're simply imposing a one-time shock penalty - the damage you do accomplishes nearly nothing. You can hit them 100 times with this damage, and that's all you'll ever manage (while if it weren't for the Limitation, they'd be a greasy smear at that point). Now, if your ability can consistently manage Crippling/Major Wounds you may be able to take a target down, but the Crippling has a pretty good chance of just reversing itself immediately (I'm considering only allowing Permanent Crippling/Dismemberment to stay in effect when the injury vanishes). Consistently dropping the foe below -1xHP is better, but note that with a high-HT foe you're just crit-fishing - your attacks can't accumulate, so you're just hoping he eventually fails by enough that Mortal Wounds don't come into play.

With the -40% version (1 second), you're a bit better off. If you have sufficient skill you may be able to Rapid Strike to get a little accumulation, your allies can (temporarily) use any damage you deal as a "stepping stone" to try and incapacitate the target, Crippling will actually last at least a second, and dropping the foe to 0 HP or lower can result in them passing out.

With the -30% version (3 seconds), you can actually cause wounds to accumulate without relying on things like Rapid Strike, and Crippling and "below n HP" effects last a bit longer. You've got a pretty limited amount of time before the things you do are reset, however, so you'll have to hit hard and fast - no lingering and "death by a thousand cuts" is going to work. If you are up against multiple foes, you may need to take serious risks to be able to take one down in time.

With the -20% version (10 seconds), you've got a decent chance of your efforts lasting an entire frantic-pace battle. You may be able to afford to take your time against a single foe, and don't have to work quite as rapidly against multiple foes, but there's still the issue that if you don't put them down effectively you're going to have pursuit hot on your tail fairly quickly. A normal attack can drop your foes to under 1/3rd HP and allow you to get away rather easily - with this you've got at best 10 seconds before they're back up to full and after you. On the other side of the equation, a wounded foe who manages to back off will likely be fully healed by the time you've finished the others off and can come in and bring the fight to you yet again.

With the -10% version (30 seconds), you're moderately unlikely to see a GURPS battle go beyond the duration of your attack. You can get a bit more of a head start if you need to run away from your wounded foes. A foe who limps away doesn't just get to fight another day - he can strike as early as your "wind-down" period after the fight.


All of these cases strike me as being more limiting than a normal attack. The advantages they have are that, if you need to keep foes alive for whatever reason, it's a bit easier for you to do that; friendly fire is also a bit less of a concern. To me, those advantages balance out with the drawbacks somewhere in the multi-minute mark.

That said, it's entirely likely that my Limitation values are a good deal off. Instantaneous is the same as "extra effects only" ("No Wounding," which is something of a misnomer as physical hits still do Blunt Trauma, burning still sets stuff on fire, and corrosive still melts DR), which may be a bit much of a discount. 10 seconds is the same as to "No Blunt Trauma," however, which is a pretty minor Limitation. Maybe -30% (Instantaneous), -20% (1 second), -15% (3 seconds), -10% (10 seconds), and -5% (30 seconds) might be better?

EDIT: Apologies, McAllister, I didn't see your post before I hit "send."

Originally Posted by McAllister

Also, are you sure a broken arm should stay broken? You'd have to really nail down what's being represented when damage disappears but crippling remains.

I'm honestly torn on how I want certain effects to be handled. I'm actually now leaning toward having everything but Shock, Unconsciousness, and Death vanish when the injury does. It may be appropriate to have a lesser Limitation that does allow for permanent crippling (only). I'd eyeball that as either +5% or +10% compared to the Temporary Wounding Limitation.

[McAllister]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I'm honestly torn on how I want certain effects to be handled. I'm actually now leaning toward having everything but Shock, Unconsciousness, and Death vanish when the injury does. It may be appropriate to have a lesser Limitation that does allow for permanent crippling (only). I'd eyeball that as either +5% or +10% compared to the Temporary Wounding Limitation.

What does damage represent? Some of it represents immediate blood loss, some trauma to organs, some trauma to flesh. I don't think a broken bone is qualitatively different from other damage; rather, it's a passing a specific damage threshold in a specific location.

If you're really modelling soul damage, I'd call it Toxic to avoid most of this (I think Toxic damage generally ignore hit location effects). What would temporary Crushing damage look like? It's hard to say. A Club of Cruelty that can break bones, but all other damage heals near-instantly? For something specific (all injury except broken bones heals), I'd think it would be the result of a specific enchantment.

[Christopher R. Rice]

That's cool. I hope you figure out how to make it work.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by McAllister

If you're really modelling soul damage, I'd call it Toxic to avoid most of this (I think Toxic damage generally ignore hit location effects). What would temporary Crushing damage look like? It's hard to say. A Club of Cruelty that can break bones, but all other damage heals near-instantly? For something specific (all injury except broken bones heals), I'd think it would be the result of a specific enchantment.

The soul-cutting weapons are loosely based on the Shardblades from The Stormlight Archives. Shardblades ignore living flesh*, passing through without harming it, and strike directly at the soul. The effect is that a cut that would have severed a limb instead severs the soul's connection to that limb, crippling it permanently (severing the spine or stabbing/cutting through a vital organ kills the target). In the case of the weapons I'm designing, the soul repairs itself so quickly that wounds cannot accumulate, but it effectively lacks the Regrowth Advantage - severed bits stay severed.

As for why I initially intended to let Lasting Crippling stick around, it's because I often think of limbs as though they were characters, after a fashion. Lasting Crippling is the limb equivalent of unconscious, while Permanent Crippling is the limb equivalent of death (severed limbs are the equivalent of a character at -10xHP). As I intend for both of those states to stick around when the damage expires, it seemed appropriate to have Crippling do so as well - but thinking further this probably isn't right, so going with "Only Shock, Unconsciousness, and Death" by default seems about right, with an option to have a lesser Limitation that allows for Permanent Crippling.

*They actually cut through nonliving matter - including dead flesh - like something akin to a lightsaber or monowire vibroblade, but this isn't something I'm trying to replicate. From the one instance where it occurred, non-crippling injury from one to a target appeared to be about as serious as a real wound - albeit without bleeding - but said target had a pretty serious regenerative/regrowth ability that negated it quickly. Presumably, even a non-crippling hit from a Shardblade would cause permanent HP injury, but I prefer much more resilient souls.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

That's cool. I hope you figure out how to make it work.

Sure, and thanks. Despite my somewhat-argumentative tone, I do appreciate you weighing in, it's just that this is one of those cases where I think you and I rather strongly disagree.

[McAllister]

I'm honestly tempted to say that Temporary Wounding is very difficult to create in a generic sense, and just build Soul Damage. Make it toxic damage with Armor Negating (+300%), Temporary Wounding (-40ish%) for the timescale of your choice and some version of Melee Weapon; by this I mean that Toxic damage and Armor Negating should be co-requisites of the Temporary Wounding limitation in making Soul Damage, and nothing else really has any reason to take Temporary Wounding so don't worry about it.