Alternate Form, how to limit the time one can stay in a form?

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

What prevents you from using the Maximum Duration limitation in this case?

Alternate Form has fairly consistently been established as a "transient" power - staying in your transformed form doesn't count as a use, only shifting itself does. So Maximum Duration isn't valid, any more than it would be valid on something like Innate Attack. That's why putting Costs Fatigue on the Alternate Form won't create a "draining" transformation, either - you would pay the FP cost once when you transformed, and that's it, until you transform back.

[cccwebs]

Originally Posted by Woodman

Hi,

In fiction there are several examples of shapeshifters, who can only stay in their alternate form for a limited time, but the RAW dont give an easy way to modell this in GURPS, as all the limitations and enhancements only affect the ability to change. I think there should be some simple sollution on how to model the following cases
1. The char can only stay in his Alternate Form for a limited time, like with the maximum duration limitation
2. The Alternate Form drains some kind of resource of the base form (likely FP)

For 1, it depends on how limiting the time is. If you mean something like can only change for a limited time then back to natural form before changing again, that can just be part of the base ability. Characters p83 states "you must specify a single, reasonably common external influence that can force you to return to your native form against your wil." Time could be considered a single, reasonably common external influence. If you mean can only be transformed for a number of hours a day total, then impose the same time restriction and add in an Accessibility limitation equal to the percentage of the day the ability is available for.

[cccwebs]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Alternate Form has fairly consistently been established as a "transient" power - staying in your transformed form doesn't count as a use, only shifting itself does. So Maximum Duration isn't valid, any more than it would be valid on something like Innate Attack. That's why putting Costs Fatigue on the Alternate Form won't create a "draining" transformation, either - you would pay the FP cost once when you transformed, and that's it, until you transform back.

Actually, Alternate Form is a bit different. The base ability of Alternate Form (the base 15 points) is a "transient" power but the form itself isn't. That's why you modify each seperately based upon the limitations that apply. So, Maximum Duration wouldn't be applied to the base 15 point cost of alternate Form, but could be applied to the point cost of the form itself, and would be specefic to that form (so that shapeshifters with multiple forms could have varying maximum durations on each form).

[transmetahuman]

Originally Posted by cccwebs

So, Maximum Duration wouldn't be applied to the base 15 point cost of alternate Form, but could be applied to the point cost of the form itself, and would be specefic to that form (so that shapeshifters with multiple forms could have varying maximum durations on each form).

The reason I suggested putting it on both, is the case where the "racial" cost of the alternate form is no higher than that of the base form - where there's nothing but the [15] base cost to modify.

Originally Posted by cccwebs

Characters p83 states "you must specify a single, reasonably common external influence that can force you to return to your native form against your wil." Time could be considered a single, reasonably common external influence.

Interesting idea here; I'll have to think about other unusual ways to apply it.

[Woodman]

Thanks for pointing me to the spirit vessel section of thaumatology, i hadnt read that part yet (stopped somewhere in syntactic magic because of annoying thinks like finishing due papers and learning for examinations). Also interesting that people now seem to like the idea of putting limitations on the actual form part of AF, i remember that this was seen als abusive and RAW illegal in earlier discussions of the topic. I think it is a very intuitive sollution.

[transmetahuman]

Originally Posted by Woodman

Also interesting that people now seem to like the idea of putting limitations on the actual form part of AF, i remember that this was seen als abusive and RAW illegal in earlier discussions of the topic. I think it is a very intuitive sollution.

IMO, only limitations that apply to every advantage in the template, basically only for time/use limits on staying in that form (e.g. a Trigger that only gives you the standard one minute rather than "one form change of indefinite duration")*. In fact I think the FAQ says to instead put those kinds of limitations on the advantages in the template individually, instead - but that gets into issues with Switchable and doesn't address limitations on disads, and makes the write-up really messy. In those specific kinds of situations, I think it's okay to just limit the total meta-trait, as it were - the difference between costs of the racial templates. But I could easily be argued away from that - limitations on the whole trait can easily be very abusive.

* Costs Fatigue was actually the big one - distinguishing between "costs FP to change" and "costs FP to maintain the form" - until Thaumatology gave us a much better way of doing it.