Skill Defaults Err? Also 40K flavour Qs

[sungnif]

I don't think I understand how skill defaults works in GURPS4e.

Diagnosis defaults to IQ-6 or First-Aid-8 (and other things). If I'm understanding that correctly, you can diagnose people at IQ-6 if you don't happen to have First-Aid. However, if you're trained in First-Aid, Diagnosing someone becomes drastically harder (-8 instead of -6).

Obviously I've got something backwards. I'd very much appreciate some help.

Also, I'm contemplating GURPS'ifying Dark Heresy, and it occurred to me I have no idea what various martial arts would be called in 40K. Now I might limit myself to just one called "martial arts" but.. I mean, since GURPS has a bunch built in, might as well use them no? So yeah, names of martial arts in 40K would be great, if you have them.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by sungnif

Diagnosis defaults to IQ-6 or First-Aid-8 (and other things). If I'm understanding that correctly, you can diagnose people at IQ-6 if you don't happen to have First-Aid. However, if you're trained in First-Aid, Diagnosing someone becomes drastically harder (-8 instead of -6).

You use your best default, not your worst one.

Also, I'm contemplating GURPS'ifying Dark Heresy, and it occurred to me I have no idea what various martial arts would be called in 40K. Now I might limit myself to just one called "martial arts" but.. I mean, since GURPS has a bunch built in, might as well use them no? So yeah, names of martial arts in 40K would be great, if you have them.

Given the insular nature of most 40k organizations I would expect every Marine chapter, Eldar Aspect and whatever to have a house style.

[sungnif]

Okay, but then I assume the First-Aid at -8 must be a typo? I mean why would someone who knows First-Aid be worse at Diagnosing than someone who doesn't? I actually assumed it was a typo but it's not the only one in that case.

In any case I think I'll houserule it to -5 for knowing First-Aid instead. That makes more sense to me.

As for the 40K thing, I'm all ears if you have more specific thoughts and maybe awesome names. I'm gonna GURPS'ify Dark Heresy which is sort of Call of Cthulhu set in 40K, where the players are more-or-less ordinary specimens, not superhumans and xenos scum. My thinking right now is that I could basically go about things really easily by renaming Brawling for the criminal class, renaming Jiu-jitsu for the Imperial Guardsmen, and renaming Karate for the Assassin class.

Thanks a lot for the reply :)

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by sungnif

Okay, but then I assume the First-Aid at -8 must be a typo? I mean why would someone who knows First-Aid be worse at Diagnosing than someone who doesn't? I actually assumed it was a typo but it's not the only one in that case.

Raising First Aid above IQ is relatively cheap, especially if a character is intended to be GOOD at medical things. It also benefits from equipment modifiers, which can be used to aid in Diagnosis.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by sungnif

Okay, but then I assume the First-Aid at -8 must be a typo? I mean why would someone who knows First-Aid be worse at Diagnosing than someone who doesn't? I actually assumed it was a typo but it's not the only one in that case.

It isn't a typo. If you know First Aid at IQ+3 or better you will have a better default from First Aid.

Think about it this way, knowing a little bit of First Aid isn't better than having general knowledge of diagnosis, but knowing a lot is.

As for the 40K thing, I'm all ears if you have more specific thoughts and maybe awesome names. I'm gonna GURPS'ify Dark Heresy which is sort of Call of Cthulhu set in 40K, where the players are more-or-less ordinary specimens, not superhumans and xenos scum. My thinking right now is that I could basically go about things really easily by renaming Brawling for the criminal class, renaming Jiu-jitsu for the Imperial Guardsmen, and renaming Karate for the Assassin class.

Are you talking about skills or styles here? Brawling is a skill, not a Style, Jujitsu is a Style, and Karate (the style) is probably not a good choice for assassins, but their Style probably has the Karate skill. This is a weird legacy thing in GURPS with the hand-to-hand skills having somewhat innapropiate names.

[cvannrederode]

Originally Posted by sungnif

I don't think I understand how skill defaults works in GURPS4e.

Diagnosis defaults to IQ-6 or First-Aid-8 (and other things). If I'm understanding that correctly, you can diagnose people at IQ-6 if you don't happen to have First-Aid. However, if you're trained in First-Aid, Diagnosing someone becomes drastically harder (-8 instead of -6).

I've always believed that you use whatever default gives you best score. So in this instance, you'll default to IQ-6, unless you know First-Aid at IQ+3 or better, since that will give you a higher default.

[ericthered]

If it lets you both grapple and strike, its two separate skills.

If it lets you parry weapons with no penalty, if the karate* skill. Unless its a grappling skill, in which case its Judo**.

If its picked up by experimentation rather than training, its the brawling skill.

If its not judo and its grappling, its probably wrestling. Unless you've got a weird situation where Sumo*** is a closer fit. and those situations are pretty rare. I've had a grand total of one player take it in all my experience. For a football player.

*any "advanced training in unarmed striking" in gurps is the karate skill, not just the martial art of that name.
** This skill represents any advanced training in unarmed throws and grappling
*** the Sumo skill is any "training at grabbing, shoving, and tripping". Its a weird duck. The one guy who took it made sufficiently hilarious use of it though.

[sungnif]

Ah derp I obviously didn't think the defaults through lol

As for the skills thing, I'm now thoroughly bewildered. In the 4e core books you can learn martial arts as skills. Brawling, Judo (not Jiu-Jitsu, my bad), Karate and Wrestling all appear to be self-contained martial arts that each do slightly different things.

Have I misunderstood something?

And yes I realise they can be combined with a bunch of other skills that are too cinematic for the low-powered Cthulhu in Spaaace feel I'm going for. And presumably a metric ton of Advantages and Disadvantages and Techniques too, that I'll have to sort through. But I haven't gotten that far yet. My plan is simply to do as straightforward a port of Dark Heresy as possible, just the core book for starters. It's a pretty crazy project already, because I'm not super familiar with GURPS to start with, I haven't played it since 3e many years ago.

Also are there any non-core GURPS material I should have a gander at? I'm not made of monies and it's xmas, but I could probably afford one or two ebooks.

Thanks again guys :)

[Apollonian]

Originally Posted by sungnif

Ah derp I obviously didn't think the defaults through lol

As for the skills thing, I'm now thoroughly bewildered. In the 4e core books you can learn martial arts as skills. Brawling, Judo (not Jiu-Jitsu, my bad), Karate and Wrestling all appear to be self-contained martial arts that each do slightly different things.

Have I misunderstood something?

And yes I realise they can be combined with a bunch of other skills that are too cinematic for the low-powered Cthulhu in Spaaace feel I'm going for. And presumably a metric ton of Advantages and Disadvantages and Techniques too, that I'll have to sort through. But I haven't gotten that far yet. My plan is simply to do as straightforward a port of Dark Heresy as possible, just the core book for starters. It's a pretty crazy project already, because I'm not super familiar with GURPS to start with, I haven't played it since 3e many years ago.

Also are there any non-core GURPS material I should have a gander at? I'm not made of monies and it's xmas, but I could probably afford one or two ebooks.

Thanks again guys :)

In GURPS, "martial arts" usually refers to Styles - a collection of skills, techniques, and possibly advantages that represent a particular fighting style. They're fully described in GURPS Martial Arts. Almost all of them will include one or more of the skills Karate, Judo, Boxing, Wrestling, etc. Examples of Styles are Chin Na, Jujutsu, Knightly Mounted Combat, Military Hand to Hand, etc.

If you want to make hand-to-hand combat a big feature of your Dark Heresy port, then you should probably pick up Martial Arts. If not, just make sure that characters have the appropriate unarmed combat skill (e.g., Judo/Boxing for Arbites, Brawling/Wrestling for Scum, Ineffective Flailing for Scribes, etc.).

What I would really suggest picking up, if you don't have it yet, is Powers. That book will really help build stuff like psykers, xenos, and Chaos critters. The Template Toolkit would also be helpful.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by sungnif

As for the skills thing, I'm now thoroughly bewildered. In the 4e core books you can learn martial arts as skills. Brawling, Judo (not Jiu-Jitsu, my bad), Karate and Wrestling all appear to be self-contained martial arts that each do slightly different things.

Have I misunderstood something?

Not really. There are a number of martial arts skills.

Brawling
Boxing
Karate
Wrestling
Sumo Wrestling
Karate

Each of these is a martial arts skill --- but each of them can stand in for other martial arts. For example, Jiu-Jitsu would be bought using the Judo skill, because its close enough. Tae kwan Do would be bought as Karate, because they are both "advanced striking" skills.

But each "Martial Arts skill" is either for striking or for grappling. If your martial art includes both, you should buy both a striking and a grappling skill. Actually, I recommend that most heroes buy both.

Styles are something other than skills. They were introduced in the Gurps: Martial Arts Book. They include a list of skills you should have to be considered a practitioner of a "complete" martial art. For example, some Karate variants include Savior-faire (dojo) and Karate Art, While Krav Maga includes both Karate and Wrestling. A style suggests what techniques and perks you use to make a practitioner in that style. You don't need them for even combat heavy games, though they are nice.