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Old 01-12-2015, 04:18 AM   #11
Icelander
 
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Default Re: Why I don't like Affliction and Malediction

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Outside of an intellectual exercise in game number crunching, I don't see the problem. Any GM that lets a player get these abilities knows what they are in for, and deserves what they get. If it is for an NPC then there is no need to stat it out. NPC has a beam that causes a Heart Attack if victim fails HT -8 roll (or any penalty you might decide on).
In a game where PCs have powers, I want the ability to stun, nauseate or cause ectstacy to a foe to be possible as a hard-to-resist bolt of magic, instead of always using a purely mental malediction in order to get through defences.

I don't see anything wrong with PCs being able to cause their foes to retch if they fail a HT-4 roll, Sense-based (Smell), with some form of additional enhancement to reflect that only sealed armour DR protects fully.

Under current rules, this is inefficiently priced and no player would take it unless forced or such a dedicated concept roleplayer that he'd accept being effectively worth much fewer points than his peers in return for modelling his powers exactly as he sees them.

And I don't want to penalise dedication to concept and innovative powers ideas, I want to reward them. At the very least, I don't want a flaw in the pricing scheme for powers to result in a certain enhancement (Malediction) being overused, to the point where it's stuffed on powers where it doesn't fit the concept.
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:05 AM   #12
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Default Re: Why I don't like Affliction and Malediction

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Under current rules, this is inefficiently priced and no player would take it unless forced or such a dedicated concept roleplayer that he'd accept being effectively worth much fewer points than his peers in return for modelling his powers exactly as he sees them.

And I don't want to penalise dedication to concept and innovative powers ideas, I want to reward them. At the very least, I don't want a flaw in the pricing scheme for powers to result in a certain enhancement (Malediction) being overused, to the point where it's stuffed on powers where it doesn't fit the concept.
This is it, exactly. GURPS Horror shows several builds not using Malediction, and frankly I think (with the current state of affairs) that's a bad idea, as it leads people to think this is reasonably fair. But the +200% of Malediction long range is not equivalent to +300% Cosmic: Irresistable Attack, it's better. On an affliction it removes the active defense, it removes the protection of DR, AND it removes the need for an attack roll, AND replacing the flat HT roll with a quick contest. For significantly less.
The Long Distance range penalties on that quick contest are NOT enough to explain why Affliction with Malediction is so much cheaper than Affliction with Irresistable Attack.
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:32 AM   #13
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Default Re: Why I don't like Affliction and Malediction

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But the +200% of Malediction long range is not equivalent to +300% Cosmic: Irresistable Attack, it's better. On an affliction it removes the active defense, it removes the protection of DR, AND it removes the need for an attack roll, AND replacing the flat HT roll with a quick contest. For significantly less.
The Long Distance range penalties on that quick contest are NOT enough to explain why Affliction with Malediction is so much cheaper than Affliction with Irresistable Attack.
I think Malediction pricing is fine, provided that higher levels of Affliction are priced no higher than 2/level.

I do think that +300% Cosmic should only be used in cases where there is no other legitimate way to get the build you are going for. Removing DR bonuses to resist Afflictions is not worth +300% in the vast majority of campains that use Afflictions. It's worth about as many levels of Reliable as the expected DR for challenging foes is.

For a simple fix, I might just call Armor Divisor half price for non-damaging attacks like Afflictions.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: Why I don't like Affliction and Malediction

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I think Malediction pricing is fine, provided that higher levels of Affliction are priced no higher than 2/level.
... whereas I think it's even more vital to make Malediction vastly more expensive if you're going to make additional levels of Affliction cheaper. It's exceedingly underpriced on level one of the affliction as it stands.

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I do think that +300% Cosmic should only be used in cases where there is no other legitimate way to get the build you are going for. Removing DR bonuses to resist Afflictions is not worth +300% in the vast majority of campains that use Afflictions. It's worth about as many levels of Reliable as the expected DR for challenging foes is.
I question this assumption - Reliable doesn't interact with resistance at all unless you have Malediction, which makes the justification feel circular. Of course, this is with my assumption that putting Reliable on a power with Malediction on it already is deeeeeply twinky.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:32 AM   #15
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Default Re: Why I don't like Affliction and Malediction

I need to point out that my concerns about the Affliction/Malediction combo aren't just theorycrafting - this is from playing a very affliction-heavy character for almost a year.

Hexing people back to the stone-age is brutally effective.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: Why I don't like Affliction and Malediction

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I need to point out that my concerns about the Affliction/Malediction combo aren't just theorycrafting - this is from playing a very affliction-heavy character for almost a year.

Hexing people back to the stone-age is brutally effective.
That's the kind of character that would have me investing in some Malediction-Proof DR, and wishing that particular enhancement cost less.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:45 AM   #17
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Default Re: Why I don't like Affliction and Malediction

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... whereas I think it's even more vital to make Malediction vastly more expensive if you're going to make additional levels of Affliction cheaper. It's exceedingly underpriced on level one of the affliction as it stands.
Compared to higher levels at 10/level or Cosmic enhancements deliberately overpriced to curb abuses, yes. Compared to a more reasonable cost for reducing the effects of DR against your Affliction (possibly by affecting a small area and requiring Sealed DR to protect) and being able to add -1 to resistance at 1/5 the RAW cost, it starts to look more comparable.

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I question this assumption - Reliable doesn't interact with resistance at all unless you have Malediction, which makes the justification feel circular. Of course, this is with my assumption that putting Reliable on a power with Malediction on it already is deeeeeply twinky.
As you noted, it's not exactly expensive to raise Will and given that One-Skill only is a legitimate limitation worth -60%, increased skill for the purposes of a single Quick Contest that the character can do is probably fairly priced at a very low cost per level and certainly overpriced at 2+ points per +1 to relative skill level.

I have no major investment in the pricing of Reliable. Doubling it to +10% would be fine by me. It's also logical that Reliable costs more than Accurate, as Reliable always works, but Acc requires 'wasting' a turn to take advantage of it.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:32 AM   #18
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Default Re: Why I don't like Affliction and Malediction

Note that you can solve most of the problems with Affliction by not using it -- for the same cost as affliction 1 you can buy 3d+1 small piercing with Side Effects (50% + affliction cost modifier) and No Wounding (-50%), which will on average apply a -5 to the HT roll and will have a duration of 20-HT minutes.

On Malediction, I would solve it by saying that it's not a quick contest -- instead, the victim must roll at the attackers margin of success or the affliction penalty, whichever is lower.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:50 AM   #19
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Default Re: Why I don't like Affliction and Malediction

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Note that you can solve most of the problems with Affliction by not using it -- for the same cost as affliction 1 you can buy 3d+1 small piercing with Side Effects (50% + affliction cost modifier) and No Wounding (-50%), which will on average apply a -5 to the HT roll and will have a duration of 20-HT minutes.
Sure, sure.

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On Malediction, I would solve it by saying that it's not a quick contest -- instead, the victim must roll at the attackers margin of success or the affliction penalty, whichever is lower.
That doesn't solve the problem that a -1 to resist a power is not worth the same as the power itself. Affliction levels are overpriced and using that pricing for more things does not help at all.

GURPS Magic and GURPS Thaumatology recommend every extra 20% energy can be converted into +1 to the spell, which directly translates into -1 to resist it, assuming it succeeds.

GURPS Psionic Powers rates transforming a power that uses Malediction-like mechanics into one that uses Affliction-like mechanics as a -80% limitation, -50% if it still ignores DR. Each -1 to resist it reduces these limitation values by +10%.
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Old 01-12-2015, 02:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why I don't like Affliction and Malediction

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Sure, sure.


That doesn't solve the problem that a -1 to resist a power is not worth the same as the power itself.
True. Something like the 10/2 pricing you mentioned would improve matters considerably. Reworking affliction completely (possibly into a special type of innate attack) also has appeal.
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