Lasting and Permanent Injuries to the Pelvic Area

[Icelander]

Some recent tactical doctrine teaches recruits to aim for the pelvic area of opponents. The reasons for this are manifold; including prevalance of body armour on the modern battlefield and the difficulty of armouring this location; the fact that this location is relatively large, central and unlikely to move around in unpredictable ways and the fact that many bones are concentrated in this area and should these break, the person is most likely unable to walk. A pelvic hit is thus usually an effective mobility kill, whereas a potentially lethal shot through a more vital area can still allow for limited activity for some minutes if the person is motivated enough.

Now, most people who are shot will tend to fall down and stay down. It hurts and it's scary and few people are willing to take the chance that they'll be shot again, even if they were technically capable of getting up. I'm not disputing this. But the kind of people* that PCs face in adventure games may not be so sensible. Oh no, they could be hopped up on PCP, wearing jury-rigged body armour with heavy steel torso plates and slavering with excitement at the thought of taking dozens of lethal hits before finally being put down.

This being said, what should be the penalty to hit the Pelvic Area in GURPS? Some descriptions of the Groin (-3) suggest that that hit location encompasses the whole pelvic region, but in that case, the penalty might perhaps be considered a bit steep. Or not, possibly, given that the Vitals are -3 too and that's a pretty big area too. What does the Group Mind think?

The wounding modifiers should probably be the same as for the Torso, as the Groin (being a part of the pelvic area), has that and I see no reason to vary it. There are a lot of things there that is rather unpleasant to suffer harm to, but that's balanced to some degree by the bones that partially protect them.

The point of targeting the pelvic area is usually to cripple it. Canonically, only limbs could be crippled in the original rules, but some rules in GURPS Martial Arts effectively extended similar mechanisms to the Spine and additionally force a special check for permanent or lasting injuries on suffering Major Wounds to the Neck, Skull, Veins/Arteries and the Vitals.

I'm inclined to say that the pelvic area is crippled if it sustain damage over HP and destroyed if it suffers twice that. The effect of crippling would be the same as Lame (Paraplegic).

Does anyone have thoughts?

Only tangentially related, what would be an appropriate cost for being immume to Temporary Crippling, but affected normally by Lasting and Permanent Crippling? And what trait would I modify to get this effect?

*If they are even people. Hell, they could be inhuman spirits inhabiting corpses and care nothing for damage to their host bodies.

[hal]

My gut instinct where this is concerned, is that the same rules that apply to shoulders also apply to the pelvic area - that leg hits include the upper thigh/ pelvic area, just as the upper arm includes the shoulder area.

But that's just my take on the overall issue.

GURPS doesn't seem to handle the prospect of a rib cage partially protecting the inner organs in a vitals hit, any more than it seems to consider that the energy spent on damaging muscle tissue might very well prevent a bone from being broken where the muscle tissue surrounds the bone.

If you want that level of granularity to be present in your game where you detail the effects of wounds on each and every possible location of the human body - you might as well play Phoenix Command ;)

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by hal

My gut instinct where this is concerned, is that the same rules that apply to shoulders also apply to the pelvic area - that leg hits include the upper thigh/ pelvic area, just as the upper arm includes the shoulder area.

That's certainly one school of thought.

But it runs into the problem of damage over HP/2 being lost, which is not realistic for the pelvic area.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Icelander

This being said, what should be the penalty to hit the Pelvic Area in GURPS? Some descriptions of the Groin (-3) suggest that that hit location encompasses the whole pelvic region, but in that case, the penalty might perhaps be considered a bit steep. Or not, possibly, given that the Vitals are -3 too and that's a pretty big area too. What does the Group Mind think?

The wounding modifiers should probably be the same as for the Torso, as the Groin (being a part of the pelvic area), has that and I see no reason to vary it. There are a lot of things there that is rather unpleasant to suffer harm to, but that's balanced to some degree by the bones that partially protect them.

[snip] I'm inclined to say that the pelvic area is crippled if it sustain damage over HP and destroyed if it suffers twice that. The effect of crippling would be the same as Lame (Paraplegic).

Does anyone have thoughts?

I like this. It's realistic enough for my inner simulationist, and the -3 to target the Groin is a fair tradeoff for the crippling effect and a lower probability of encountering armor from the gameist perspective.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

I like this. It's realistic enough for my inner simulationist, and the -3 to target the Groin is a fair tradeoff for the crippling effect and a lower probability of encountering armor from the gameist perspective.

That's good.

It seemed to work fine in playtesting. Unfortunately, the targets in question were Unliving and resistant to crippling unless that crippling was Lasting or Permanent, so the 9mm bullets that the characters were packing didn't really cut the mustard.

Anyone who says that 10 rounds are enough for self-defence has never faced tortured and partially dissected homeless people animated with malevolent spirits.

[chris1982]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Anyone who says that 10 rounds are enough for self-defence has never faced tortured and partially dissected homeless people animated with malevolent spirits.

That's where the axe in the house comes in...

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by chris1982

That's where the axe in the house comes in...

Or the frickin' ice axe one PC insisted on carrying in his backpack?

He happened, no joke, to have a full kit of ice climbing equipment with him.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Or the frickin' ice axe one PC insisted on carrying in his backpack?

He happened, no joke, to have a full kit of ice climbing equipment with him.

Must be an Icelander thing...

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Must be an Icelander thing...

In his defence, his character is a keen amateur climber.

But still! He was driving around on surveillance and when he leaves his car to walk into a MBTA station, he takes his trail bag along. Just in case.

His intention was that he'd have a rope along, I think. But I'm not sure what he was thinking.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Icelander

But still! He was driving around on surveillance and when he leaves his car to walk into a MBTA station, he takes his trail bag along. Just in case.

We just say T station, or T stop. (Tee)

BTW, in case you didn't pick up on it, the T has its own police force, the MBTA Transit Police Department is simply known as the Transit Police, their jurisdiction in Mass is second only to the State Police, though at under 300 personnel it's a tenth the size of either the State Police or the Boston Police.
They have their own SWAT, EDU and Hazmat teams.

http://transitpolice.us/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massach...thority_Police

The Mass State Police sucked in all the other agencies which had statewide jurisdiction in the early 90s, so the Mass Registry of Motor Vehicles no longer has its own SWAT team... *grin*