Doubling or tripling damage

[Finalsora811]

Some things (such as the critical hit table and Pressure Secrets skill) say to double or triple damage. Does that mean it acts like a wounding modifier or does it apply the bonus to whatever you roller, regardless of how much DR your foe has? For instance, say I'm gonna triple my 20 damage versus a foe with 15 DR. Does that mean I triple the 20 (before DR), resulting in 45 damage or do I triple the 5 damage (after DR), resulting in 15 damage?

Related but random question: Is 17 always a critical fail while attacking? I remember reading that somewhere, but now I can't find it.

[Refplace]

USually after DR applied. The main thing to look for is if it says Injury that is after DR. Damage is usually before.

[CousinX]

It depends on the specific case, but if it's not spelled out, something that just says "triple normal damage" (like the Critical Hit Table) is just that -- roll damage, and triple it, before applying DR. If it's a "wounding multiplier," like cutting or impaling damage, it's multiplied after DR, and it usually says as much in the description.

From the Basic Set (Campaigns), p. 348, a 17 is always a critical failure unless you have skill 16+, in which case it's just a normal failure. An 18 is always a critical failure, no matter what.

[Saabre]

If your effective skill is 16 or better, 17 is a normal failure and 18 is a cirtical failure.

[Finalsora811]

Originally Posted by CousinX

From the Basic Set (Campaigns), p. 348, a 17 is always a critical failure unless you have skill 16+, in which case it's just a normal failure. An 18 is always a critical failure, no matter what.

So if I have a skill of 18, does that mean I succeed or fail on a 17? The wording here makes it seem like 17 is ALWAYS a failure, no matter what.

[CousinX]

Originally Posted by Finalsora811

So if I have a skill of 18, does that mean I succeed or fail on a 17? The wording here makes it seem like 17 is ALWAYS a failure, no matter what.

That's correct, 17 is always a failure, no matter what. If your modified skill is 16 or less, it's a critical failure.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Finalsora811

So if I have a skill of 18, does that mean I succeed or fail on a 17? The wording here makes it seem like 17 is ALWAYS a failure, no matter what.

It is a failure, just nto a critical failure.
Higher skills at this pint are good for countering penalties but no longer help your base roll if you have no penalties. However a GM may declare something as trivial and no need to roll.

[munin]

The result of your damage roll is "basic damage". You then subtract DR to get "penetrating damage". Next you apply wounding modifiers to get "injury" (Damage and Injury, p. B377). Unless it specifically says penetrating damage, any reference to damage means basic damage -- and injury is injury.

Pressure Secrets says to double "damage that penetrates DR" so that's penetrating damage which should be doubled (effectively, Pressure Secrets changes the wounding modifier of your hands to ×2). The Critical Hit Table says to double/triple damage, so that's basic damage which should be doubled/tripled (actually it explicitly says that at the top).

"...a roll of 17 or 18 is always a failure..." (Success Rolls, p. B343), ... or, more specifically: "A roll of 17 is a critical failure if your effective skill is 15 or less; otherwise, it is an ordinary failure." (Degree of Success or Failure, pp. B347-348) -- thus a rolled 17 is always at least a failure, no matter how high your score is. Skill alone can't compensate for the fact that sometimes the universe is complicated and things just go wrong -- but Luck can.