[DF] Medieval Europe as a Dungeon Fantasy Setting

[LoneWolf23k]

So, as someone who likes both Dungeon Fantasy campaigns as well as the concept of alternate Earths, I was wondering about making an alternate, "Dungeon Fantasy" focused Earth.

I've seen this done a few times before. One of my favorites was the Pathfinder setting Kingdoms of Legend line from Interaction Point Games, which sadly seems defunct.

It's premise involved humanity in a world with all the fantasy trappings, like dragons, elves and magic, but with society evolving much as on our Earth, minus monotheism (or at least, minus Christianity and Islam), with religions based on the Olympian pantheon dominating western culture, albeit with Interpretatio Graeca/Germanica being used to translate the Twelve Gods into different cultures. So Jupiter/Zeus was also seen as Taranis by the Celts, or Thor by the Germans. (one of the last sourcebooks they produced seemed to hint at them expanding this to the Egyptian and Vedic pantheons, but alas, I think it's a dead line). There are other changes, but otherwise, the setting is currently in its year 1415 CE (Year 0 here being the moment when Rome declared the worship of anyone BUT the Twelve illegal), but other than the replacement of real world religions and the addition of fantastic races and magic, the world is very recognizable: the Black Death occurred on schedule 60 years ago, depopulating much of Europe; the Holy Roman Empire dominates much of Western Europe, rivaled by the wealthier Kingdom of France, and so on.

That's just one of my favorite examples that I can think of from, although I can think of at least three GURPS settings that might also qualify:
-Midgard, originally from GURPS Alternate Earths 2 (world where Viking raids on Rome and Byzantium have reduced Christianity's influence, and Europe is now mostly Norse-flavored)
-Pandemonium, from Pyramid vol.4 #1, a world where Demons started invading in 1000 C.E., which would mostly work for a Dark Fantasy setting. This would most likely be a human-focused setting, as nonhuman races might get confused with demons.
-Roma Arcana, from GURPS Fantasy, for a decidedly more Roman-flavored setting. It shouldn't be too hard to add nonhumans here; elves could make up some of the celtic tribes, dwarves could dwell in the alps, the germanic tribes might have giants and orcs among their numbers, etc. And adding functional Dungeon Fantasy magic wouldn't really break the setting; the Roman Legions just add battlemages and combat clerics to their ranks.

Mostly farming ideas here. Has anyone else considered turning Medieval (or Older) Earth into a Dungeon Fantasy setting, and if you have, what were your ideas?

I might come back to this thread if I have new ideas myself, but I open the floor here.

[Rolando]

The GURPS Banestorm is also just that but in another world. Even in another world most of the politics and all the regional flavor is basically medieval Europe and Middle East with the traditional fantasy elements added.

[Apollonian]

Although I've never run it, I did come up with something for the middle ages:

Over the course of several years, the Cities of Ruin appear in mountain ranges across the world. Their appearance is accompanied by cataclysms and monsters. Society is thrown into turmoil and the status quo toppled in many places. After the cataclysms, there is a period of adjustment as the people near the cities of ruin deal with the monsters and the effects of the cataclysms, re-establish society, and begin to explore the cities. This period lasts from between a few decades to about a century, and it is at the latter mark - around 1023 AD - that an adventure begins in Lombardy, northern Italy, in the city of Milan.

The High City

From the foot of the Matterhorn north to the shores of Lake Zurich stretches the black and mysterious bulk of the High City, born in storm and earthquake a hundred years ago. It encompasses the county of Valais and the valley of the Upper Rhone River, with outbuildings located as far southwest as the shores of Lake Geneva. The southernmost buildings have been seen, but not explored, between the Weisshorn and the Matterhorn, and the northern-most and western-most outposts are sunk in Lake Zurich, where monsters swim among towers that jut from the lake’s surface.

"Cities of Ruin" are megadungeons with Gates that allow travel between them and between worlds. Exploring them would be the main point of such a campaign.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf23k

So, as someone who likes both Dungeon Fantasy campaigns as well as the concept of alternate Earths, I was wondering about making an alternate, "Dungeon Fantasy" focused Earth.

I've seen this done a few times before. One of my favorites was the Pathfinder setting Kingdoms of Legend line from Interaction Point Games, which sadly seems defunct.

It's premise involved humanity in a world with all the fantasy trappings, like dragons, elves and magic, but with society evolving much as on our Earth, minus monotheism (or at least, minus Christianity and Islam), with religions based on the Olympian pantheon dominating western culture, albeit with Interpretatio Graeca/Germanica being used to translate the Twelve Gods into different cultures. So Jupiter/Zeus was also seen as Taranis by the Celts, or Thor by the Germans. (one of the last sourcebooks they produced seemed to hint at them expanding this to the Egyptian and Vedic pantheons, but alas, I think it's a dead line). There are other changes, but otherwise, the setting is currently in its year 1415 CE (Year 0 here being the moment when Rome declared the worship of anyone BUT the Twelve illegal), but other than the replacement of real world religions and the addition of fantastic races and magic, the world is very recognizable: the Black Death occurred on schedule 60 years ago, depopulating much of Europe; the Holy Roman Empire dominates much of Western Europe, rivaled by the wealthier Kingdom of France, and so on.

That's just one of my favorite examples that I can think of from, although I can think of at least three GURPS settings that might also qualify:
-Midgard, originally from GURPS Alternate Earths 2 (world where Viking raids on Rome and Byzantium have reduced Christianity's influence, and Europe is now mostly Norse-flavored)
-Pandemonium, from Pyramid vol.4 #1, a world where Demons started invading in 1000 C.E., which would mostly work for a Dark Fantasy setting. This would most likely be a human-focused setting, as nonhuman races might get confused with demons.
-Roma Arcana, from GURPS Fantasy, for a decidedly more Roman-flavored setting. It shouldn't be too hard to add nonhumans here; elves could make up some of the celtic tribes, dwarves could dwell in the alps, the germanic tribes might have giants and orcs among their numbers, etc. And adding functional Dungeon Fantasy magic wouldn't really break the setting; the Roman Legions just add battlemages and combat clerics to their ranks.

Mostly farming ideas here. Has anyone else considered turning Medieval (or Older) Earth into a Dungeon Fantasy setting, and if you have, what were your ideas?

I might come back to this thread if I have new ideas myself, but I open the floor here.

One idea is to use real literature. Use Chivalric Romance for a "knightly" setting and sagas for Northern European Style (which may be pre-christian or during the conflict between religions when most sagas took place). If you do the later you do not have to emphasize religion, that is not in the spirit of sagas anyway, they concentrate on the heroes adventures. That was less in the spirit of real life than some think too: in some digs they have found what are apparently smithies with stored decorations some of which were Crucifixes and some Thor's Hammer because they were easily altered and customer was always right).

The point is that you do not have to make more of a bother about religion than necessary. Just do not assume it to be the world of history. Assume it to be the one of literature.

[Emerikol]

Originally Posted by Rolando

The GURPS Banestorm is also just that but in another world. Even in another world most of the politics and all the regional flavor is basically medieval Europe and Middle East with the traditional fantasy elements added.

This and just transplant it back on continents that look like earths. The cultures etc.. probably work. Though you could tweak the non-humans if some didn't suit your taste as far as origins go.

[Phil Masters]

I’d probably look at Ars Magica as an intermittently period-myth-accurate fantastification of medieval Europe for game purposes. Light on dungeons, but one can add those.

I have a vague feeling that Ken Hite tackled this theme once or twice during the run of Suppressed Transmission.

[LoneWolf23k]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

I’d probably look at Ars Magica as an intermittently period-myth-accurate fantastification of medieval Europe for game purposes. Light on dungeons, but one can add those.

I have a vague feeling that Ken Hite tackled this theme once or twice during the run of Suppressed Transmission.

He did. One of my favorites was collected in the Suppressed Transmission compilations: Arthur vs Justinian, which combines Arthurian lore with the Anekdota version of Byzantine Emperor Justinian, who was portrayed as a demon-emperor with a sorceress wife, to create a high fantasy setting where King Arthur is leading a reconquest of the Roman Empire from the West, fighting against Justinian's own Imperial forces.

Another two concepts I can think of involved Holy Roman Emperor Otto the Great; one was a riff on Lord of the Rings, where the Ring was actually the Rhinegold from the Nibelung Saga, and another riff based on Star Wars.

I really should go into my collection of articles to get more details.

[thrash]

One of the problems with adapting medieval Europe as a run-of-the-mill Dungeon Fantasy setting is that these tend to be severely depopulated and unstable -- more post-Apocalyptic than post-Classical.

You'd want either a series of disasters (beyond even the Mongols, the Black Death, and the Hundred Years War) to turn the European heartlands into wilderness and seed them with abandoned ruins, or to set the campaign on the wild fringes of the region. Something like the Pandemonium timeline might work, if the demons would break out of the areas they control every two or three generations and lay waste to civilization. (I note with amusement that Sylvester II, who was pope in AD 1000, was often accused both during and after his lifetime of consorting with demons.)

You should also account for the effect of different mana levels: normal in DF, vs. (presumably) low or none in the Real World (tm). A massive shift in mana levels -- perhaps tied to the "Event of AD 535" -- might be a useful departure point, although history would diverge pretty quickly thereafter. (I think this is another favorite Ken Hite topic.)

Another possibility is if Christianity evolved into a more tolerant and syncretic religion, along the lines of Buddhism, rather than a mostly monopolistic one. If the Church adopted and encouraged pre-Christian folk beliefs instead of suppressing them, you might wind up with a more openly magical society with lots of supernatural entities on the margins. (I don't know enough about Ars Magica to know if this is part of its background already.)

[the-croupier]

They're obviously coming much later in the timeline, but the two GURPS Castle Falkenstein books might at least have some helpful ideas for handling nonhumans in a European setting.

Besides, every setting is better with airships, no matter how you get them in there.

[Tinman]

The book series The Videssos Cycle by Harry Turtledove is set in a fantasy world that's effectively the Byzantine Empire. (A roman legion gets magically transported there.)

I think it's an excellent series & highly recommend. It may have some ideas for you.