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Old 10-23-2020, 02:50 PM   #1
ingeanus
 
Join Date: May 2020
Default How to use Control (Magic) with your RPM casting

I recently was pointed to the Pyramid #3/66 article for RPM and one of the parts that caught my eye was the section on Control (Magic), especially for enhancing your ability to generate energy for spells.

However, I am at a bit of a loss how one can properly go about this due to some of the aspects for the Control advantage.

Firstly, as far as I can tell the Control advantage would likely require you to take a Concentrate maneuver every second in order to maintain the bonuses due to it requires a Concentrate maneuver to shape a spell alongside the spell returning to its original form whenever you stop Concentrating, which obviously precludes using Concentrate maneuvers on Gathering Energy.

I considered that Persistent would be the solution to this, but it's duration is a shallow 10 seconds after Concentration has lapsed, and as such requiring many levels of Extended Duration for Ritual Adepts alongside astronomical levels for those without. As well, I'm uncertain if you could even pause in the middle of Gathering Energy to Concentrate on using the Control advantage again.

Alternatively a method that I was unsure about was the possibility of applying Reduced Time onto Control, making it a Free Action each turn to Concentrate. However, not only does this seem dubiously powerful I'm also unsure whether Control should be classified as an Attack and therefore banned for use with Reduced Time.

And lastly, my final idea was to use a heavily limited version of Compartmentalized Mind, with some limitation such as (Control (Magic) Advantage only, -80%). This mind would be able to assert control of the energy as well as concentrate by itself. However, despite this seeming like one of the most correct options to me, this one comes out even cheaper than the other methods (Due to the level I am intending on taking Control (Magic) at), which seems even more dubious to me.

I'm uncertain which of these methods / any other methods might be the most correct, or even correct at all when trying to achieve this.
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Old 10-23-2020, 07:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: How to use Control (Magic) with your RPM casting

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And lastly, my final idea was to use a heavily limited version of Compartmentalized Mind, with some limitation such as (Control (Magic) Advantage only, -80%). This mind would be able to assert control of the energy as well as concentrate by itself. However, despite this seeming like one of the most correct options to me, this one comes out even cheaper than the other methods (Due to the level I am intending on taking Control (Magic) at), which seems even more dubious to me.
-30% for 'one power only" when you have all that RPM to access, -20% for not including the benefits of extra minds (Psionic Powers 13). I've used this 25pt power a lot and it seems about as useful as Extra Attack. Further, you can No Rolls Required on Control Magic and SOP perk to say you're always getting the benefits of Control.
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:45 PM   #3
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: How to use Control (Magic) with your RPM casting

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Originally Posted by ingeanus View Post
Firstly, as far as I can tell the Control advantage would likely require you to take a Concentrate maneuver every second in order to maintain the bonuses due to it requires a Concentrate maneuver to shape a spell alongside the spell returning to its original form whenever you stop Concentrating, which obviously precludes using Concentrate maneuvers on Gathering Energy.
Correct.

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Originally Posted by ingeanus View Post
I considered that Persistent would be the solution to this, but it's duration is a shallow 10 seconds after Concentration has lapsed, and as such requiring many levels of Extended Duration for Ritual Adepts alongside astronomical levels for those without. As well, I'm uncertain if you could even pause in the middle of Gathering Energy to Concentrate on using the Control advantage again.
No, stopping a spell like that would end the spell. I'm not sure I'd allow Persistent or Extended Duration on this version of Control. If so I'd probably require some kind of cosmic on the advantage. If you want a trait that will give you a bonus to gather energy buy Mana Enhancer (Place of Power).

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Alternatively a method that I was unsure about was the possibility of applying Reduced Time onto Control, making it a Free Action each turn to Concentrate. However, not only does this seem dubiously powerful I'm also unsure whether Control should be classified as an Attack and therefore banned for use with Reduced Time.
Reduced Time is a no go on this - free actions are not common in 4e.

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Originally Posted by ingeanus View Post
And lastly, my final idea was to use a heavily limited version of Compartmentalized Mind, with some limitation such as (Control (Magic) Advantage only, -80%). This mind would be able to assert control of the energy as well as concentrate by itself. However, despite this seeming like one of the most correct options to me, this one comes out even cheaper than the other methods (Due to the level I am intending on taking Control (Magic) at), which seems even more dubious to me.
You could use Compartmentalized Mind, but it wouldn't be at -80%. It would be -30% for one ability per GURPS Psionic Powers (p. 13).

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I'm uncertain which of these methods / any other methods might be the most correct, or even correct at all when trying to achieve this.

Again, it's there to help others more than to help yourself as a caster. If you feel you need to use it, Compartmentalized Mind would likely be the best way. That or buying a familiar who uses it on you.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: How to use Control (Magic) with your RPM casting

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That or buying a familiar who uses it on you.
I didn't even consider that. What a perfect thing for a familiar to do.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: How to use Control (Magic) with your RPM casting

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I considered that Persistent would be the solution to this, but it's duration is a shallow 10 seconds after Concentration has lapsed,
I think you'd possibly also need Independent (not sure if +40% of +70%) too? That seems to be what gets you through the "doesn't need concentrates anymore" door, and then it the duration you buy UNLESS it requires an activation roll (lasts MoS minutes) or is resisted (lasts MoF minutes) or is a Quick Contest (lasts MoS minutes minus MoS of resister determining MoV if they fail)

If there's no rolls whatsoever I think you just ignore the 'margin' thing and go straight to applying Independent up to the full duration you purchase.

The 'use lesser' from Margins means they would cap any huge amounts unless you are allowed buy ED on the MoF too, meaning you're buying two continuums of ED (functioning at lesser of both) the base 10-second Persistant and the MoF minutes. That's expensive enough to be fair (especially comapred to Affliction which only needs to buy duration once)

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and as such requiring many levels of Extended Duration for Ritual Adepts alongside astronomical levels for those without. As well, I'm uncertain if you could even pause in the middle of Gathering Energy to Concentrate on using the Control advantage again.
I think that's what Independent is meant to do, you preprogram your ability to do something without doing a Concentrate to give it input.

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Alternatively a method that I was unsure about was the possibility of applying Reduced Time onto Control, making it a Free Action each turn to Concentrate.
If it were that simple we'd just do that for Mind Control and Telekinesis.

Instead the best you get from Reduced Time on TK is "it can pick up options as a free action" but you still take Concentrates unless you take Independent.

Once you had Independent it'd probably be okay to add Reduced Time to make it a free action to "change the orders" for your independent ability, or to "re-initiate it" whenever the MoF/MoV minutes expired.
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Old 10-24-2020, 12:39 AM   #6
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: How to use Control (Magic) with your RPM casting

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I didn't even consider that. What a perfect thing for a familiar to do.
"A Familiar Path" in Pyramid #3/75: Hero's Jackpot has this as one of the abilities for familiars to take.
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