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Old 09-15-2019, 02:30 PM   #51
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

Having a couple people a generation per attribute with a 20 is not broken or unrealistic, there are people that gifted, it is just that they will be world-class athletes, Noble Prize winners, etc. (though the vast majority of those people will probably instead have (Attribute) 16 and (Talent) 4 instead). They will not be characters in realistic campaigns because realistic campaigns do not deal with such people (unless they are villains).

For example, a criminal mastermind with ST 12, DX 12, IQ 20, and HT 12 would make a terrifying opponent for a group of realistic characters capped at a maximum attribute of 14. Such an individual would be as good (if not better) as they are in most of their mental skills just through their defaults, meaning that they would have to use every edge that they have just to keep up. Of course, such an opponent would likely have secret that they would want to preserve and would hide their prodigious intelligence from their peers. Just because the PCs are limited to normal ranges does not mean that their opponents need to be.

If you want something to complain about though, look at wealth. For less than the difference between IQ 14 and IQ 20, a character can have Multimillionaire 2 and Independent Income 5 which, at TL8, gives them an income of $10 million per month, $200 million of personal assets ($40 million of adventuring gear), and investments worth a minimum of $4 billion (assuming an annual 3% return on investment). They also gain Status 3 without cost, meaning that they already get invited to all of the best parties, and can hire groups of world class experts to deal with problems without blinking. Bruce Wayne is a superhero because of his wealth, the crimefighting is just a way to keep from being bored.
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Old 09-15-2019, 07:05 PM   #52
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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I think 20 is supposed to be the upper limit of cinematic human ability. Like Lex Luthor or Tony Stark, who can justify stuff like Games (Chess)-16 and Mathematics (Pure)-14, through casual exposure to them from general education.
Lex Luthor and Tony Stark have Inventor! and Science! which would explain a lot of what they do without getting to 20.
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Old 09-15-2019, 07:24 PM   #53
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Having a couple people a generation per attribute with a 20 is not broken or unrealistic, there are people that gifted, it is just that they will be world-class athletes, Noble Prize winners, etc. (though the vast majority of those people will probably instead have (Attribute) 16 and (Talent) 4 instead).
Many Nobel Prize winners don't really have many accomplishments outside of their narrow field, often what GURPS would consider an optional specialty, or even the Hyperspecialization Perk. Few athletes make a name for themselves in more than two (usually very similar) sports.
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Old 09-15-2019, 07:58 PM   #54
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Lex Luthor and Tony Stark have Inventor! and Science! which would explain a lot of what they do without getting to 20.
Its much cheaper to have IQ 20 and Inventor!-20 and Science!-20 than to have IQ 14 and Inventor!-20 and Science!-20. The former gets you +6 to IQ-based defaults and skills, as well as +6 Per and Will, and it costs 248 CP. The latter costs 272 CP. So, for 24 CP less, you can make a much more capable character, and it is no use claiming that it is less realistic.
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Old 09-16-2019, 06:13 AM   #55
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Its much cheaper to have IQ 20 and Inventor!-20 and Science!-20 than to have IQ 14 and Inventor!-20 and Science!-20. The former gets you +6 to IQ-based defaults and skills, as well as +6 Per and Will, and it costs 248 CP. The latter costs 272 CP. So, for 24 CP less, you can make a much more capable character, and it is no use claiming that it is less realistic.
What's most cost efficient in a points-buy RPG system, and what's realistic is two very different things
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Old 09-16-2019, 06:22 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Its much cheaper to have IQ 20 and Inventor!-20 and Science!-20 than to have IQ 14 and Inventor!-20 and Science!-20. The former gets you +6 to IQ-based defaults and skills, as well as +6 Per and Will, and it costs 248 CP. The latter costs 272 CP. So, for 24 CP less, you can make a much more capable character, and it is no use claiming that it is less realistic.
Regarding that +6 Per and Will...

Let's face it Lex and Tony aren't really that perceptive or strong willed otherwise they would see things they miss and be able to regularly resist their respective Obsession and Addiction (Kill Superman and Alcoholism)

An example of a Lex Luthor who is more perceptive then his canonal comic incarnations is in the fanfiction Inviolate especially in Chapter 15

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what most cost efficient in a points-buy RPG systems and what's realistic is two very different things
Quite right. It isn't just a matter of cheaper but what better fits the character. Heck, I would say even in his Silver Age incarnation Superman didn't have a IQ 20 and he was outsmarting Luthor all the time.

Last edited by maximara; 09-16-2019 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 09-16-2019, 06:38 AM   #57
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what most cost efficient in a points-buy RPG systems and what's realistic is two very different things
We have already tossed realism out the window when we brought up comic books characters and Wildcard Skills. As for high Per and Will, you can take -4 to Will and Per in order to get back 40 CP, and the actions of both characters tend to reflect more disadvantages than lack of Will. Obsession does not allow for Will roll to control.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:12 AM   #58
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We have already tossed realism out the window when we brought up comic books characters and Wildcard Skills. As for high Per and Will, you can take -4 to Will and Per in order to get back 40 CP, and the actions of both characters tend to reflect more disadvantages than lack of Will.
The fact those came up at all for examples of abilities of 20 when the very topic is "Maximum Attributes for Real World People" shows that few (if any) examples of such people exist in the real world.

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Obsession does not allow for Will roll to control.
Incorrect. "Obsession -5 or -10 points* (...) Make a self-control roll whenever it would be wise to deviate from your goal." (B142)

"An asterisk (*) appears next to the point cost of any disadvantage that offers a chance to resist. For each disadvantage like this, you must choose a self control number: the number you must roll on 3d to avoid giving in. (B120-1)

In fact, the GURPS wiki's List of Disadvantages notes which Disadvantages have this self-control roll and Obsession is clearly one of these.

Mover over as the GURPS wiki the highest stat 3e's Who's Who 1 and 2 gave was an IQ 18 for Leonardo Da Vinci and Sir Isaac Newton and that was likely highballing it a bit.

Last edited by maximara; 09-16-2019 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:26 AM   #59
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We have already tossed realism out the window when we brought up comic books characters and Wildcard Skills.
You seemed to be talking about them in terms of what is realistic?

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As for high Per and Will, you can take -4 to Will and Per in order to get back 40 CP, and the actions of both characters tend to reflect more disadvantages than lack of Will. Obsession does not allow for Will roll to control.
Absolutely but again this seems to be about CP expenditure rather then about realism or realistic attributes (either in isolation or as part of a whole)
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:28 AM   #60
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Incorrect. "Obsession -5 or -10 points* (...) Make a self-control roll whenever it would be wise to deviate from your goal." (B142)

"An asterisk (*) appears next to the point cost of any disadvantage that offers a chance to resist. For each disadvantage like this, you must choose a self control number: the number you must roll on 3d to avoid giving in. (B120-1)

In fact, the GURPS wiki's List of Disadvantages notes which Disadvantages have this self-control roll and Obsession is clearly one of these.
Self Control rolls aren't based on Will.
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