Making Imbuements based on Will balanced ([Power-Ups 1: Imbuements], [Powers])

[phayman53]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

There are 14 HT based skills, 13 Per based skills, 14 Will based skills in the basic book alone.


I have a list.

Wow, I did not actually look and count. I had no idea there are so many Will based skills alread! Out of curiosity, are you counting manditory specializations like Survival (terrain type) as separate skills, or are you counting skills with mandatory specializations as a single skill? Definitely indicates that Will and Per should probably be attributes in their own right.

[phayman53]

Well, I looked over the Will based and Per based skills in Basic and discovered that, while there are many of them by RAW, almost all of the Will based skills are only applicable in cinematic and/or supernatural games (Intimidation and Meditation being the major exceptions, possibly dreaming too depending on what people believe about lucid dreaming). That means that Will gains a lot of utility as an attribute in these types of games when compared to DX, HT, IQ, and Per (which also gain utility, but not as much comparatively). That said, even in realistic/mundane settings Will has a lot of uses that might commend a raise in cost/level to 10 points--especially if other social skills are floated to it. I certanly think Per deserves the cost increase as is (currently no reson to pay for 3 Per skills at the 4 point level, just raise Per instead, and even 2 skills is marginal compares to other benefits of Per).

Since I already am House Ruling some things, I think I may just change the cost of Per and Will and see how it goes (and use Based on (Different Attribute) +20% on the imbument advantage).

Thanks for the inpute!

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by phayman53

Wow, I did not actually look and count.

I made a list* when determining how many skills fell under IQ versus how many fell under DX (and the other stats) in order to determine if IQ needed to cost more than DX. I believe it should, but my Players threatened to revolt over the suggestion, so I just went with splitting Per and Will into their own stats (except when running DF).

Out of curiosity, are you counting manditory specializations like Survival (terrain type) as separate skills, or are you counting skills with mandatory specializations as a single skill?

Specializations are ignored on my list, and IQ clocks in at almost twice the skills of DX (before splitting out Pre ad Will) If you split Per and Will out its a 1:1.5 ratio in favor of IQ, and that's without counting any spells.




* The list is accurate for ST, IQ, Per, Will, and HT. It's a bit rougher (but close) with DX as there are artifacts that I didn't clear out (skills like Melee Weapons versus having also listed every Melee Weapon skill individually).

1 ST, 93 DX, 146 IQ + 13 Per + 14 Will, 14 HT

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by phayman53

Well, I looked over the Will based and Per based skills in Basic and discovered that, while there are many of them by RAW, almost all of the Will based skills are only applicable in cinematic and/or supernatural games (Intimidation and Meditation being the major exceptions, possibly dreaming too depending on what people believe about lucid dreaming). That means that Will gains a lot of utility as an attribute in these types of games when compared to DX, HT, IQ, and Per (which also gain utility, but not as much comparatively). That said, even in realistic/mundane settings Will has a lot of uses that might commend a raise in cost/level to 10 points--especially if other social skills are floated to it. I certanly think Per deserves the cost increase as is (currently no reson to pay for 3 Per skills at the 4 point level, just raise Per instead, and even 2 skills is marginal compares to other benefits of Per).

Yes and in Stealth/Survival based games Per becomes almost the go to stat.

That said I stopped the "just raise stat" by 'effectively' capping stats at 16. (again, except in DF.)

[Anders]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

1 ST, 93 DX, 146 IQ + 13 Per + 14 Will, 14 HT

Which one is the ST-based skill?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anders

Which one is the ST-based skill?

Hobby Skill. Not important, but included for mostly-accurate completion.

[BaHalus]

Originally Posted by Bruno

IMC, I made Will a separate attribute and ripped all the social influence skills off IQ and put them on Will, waving my hands around and mumbling something about force of personality. I charge 10/level for it.

How about "Emotions" or "Emotional Inteligence"? I think that makes sense.

It would include some carisma? In other words, it would affect reactions directly or only influence skills?

[phayman53]

Originally Posted by BaHalus

How about "Emotions" or "Emotional Inteligence"? I think that makes sense.

It would include some carisma? In other words, it would affect reactions directly or only influence skills?

I really like the idea of an Emotional Intelligence stat, and I think it would go a long way to making " face" characters distinct from genius/wizard characters--as is usually the case in fiction (and often, but not always, IRL). That said, I am reluctant to introduce a whole new stat--indeed I really would like to avoid changing as much RAW as possible. Rather I think the socially hopeless genius/wizard/whatever can be represented by disadvantages like OPH, Low Empathy, anti-talents, etc. The advantage of this is that taking such disadvantages gives the genius more points for IQ stuff, so it definitely is not an artificial imposition by the GM.

That said, if there ever is a 5E (and I am not pushing for that soon), I would hope it would split IQ along these lines.

[Varyon]

In theory, you could divide IQ into Knowledge (Kno), Social (Soc), Will, and Perception (Per), at [5]/level for each. There are more Kno- and Soc-based skills than Will- and Per-based ones, of course, but Will and Per have important uses beyond skill. Of course, when you put them like that, they really seem like overpowered, underpriced Talents - which is sort of what they are, honestly. Outside of magic, those prices probably aren't terribly unbalanced - Soc is comparable in price and utility to Charisma - but once magic comes into play you'd need to tweak stuff so that Kno doesn't become a supertrait.

[phayman53]

Originally Posted by Varyon

In theory, you could divide IQ into Knowledge (Kno), Social (Soc), Will, and Perception (Per), at [5]/level for each. There are more Kno- and Soc-based skills than Will- and Per-based ones, of course, but Will and Per have important uses beyond skill. Of course, when you put them like that, they really seem like overpowered, underpriced Talents - which is sort of what they are, honestly. Outside of magic, those prices probably aren't terribly unbalanced - Soc is comparable in price and utility to Charisma - but once magic comes into play you'd need to tweak stuff so that Kno doesn't become a supertrait.

Actually, if I were to creat an Emotional Intelligence (EI) stat, IQ would still be 20 points and I would probably price EI at 20 points, maybe 15 at the lowest (depending on how many skills it ends-up having). It would have more than just the normal social influence skills associated with it, and many other RAW IQ skills would float between the IQ and EI depending on use (IQ Savoir-Faire to know correct social rules, EI based to use them to influence someone).