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Old 08-29-2006, 07:23 AM   #11
Methariel
 
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Default Happy birthday?

Then we may say "Happy birthday" to you, timespike? For it seems that the "birthday money" has come to you...

I think the text I was thinking about is to be found in Superiors 4, but I doubt that the topic is covered in the Word-Bound box in the Fleurity-entry. I rather assume that it's a second grey box concerned with the relationship of Haagenti and Fleurity.
(And my personal opinion is that Haagenti will sooner or later stomp on Fleurity because the massive drug-abuse the latter promotes tends to drive away power from Haagenti in this field.)

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Old 08-29-2006, 07:56 AM   #12
Archangel Beth
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Default Re: Lesser wordbounds: brainstorming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timespike
Quick question to the Illustrious Archangel Beth: as I develop these celestials, can I post their stat blocks?
If they are your own creations, sure. If they are developed ones from canonical mentions... You can, but you must realize -- and should possibly put in a text disclaimer (as a reminder, if nothing else) -- that future authors may also develop those mentions into full characters (I encourage this in my authors!), and there could be cases of parallel evolution or outright "I forgot I saw this somewhere before."

Essentially, check out http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html -- in particular...
Quote:
Hey, did you steal my idea?

Absolutely not. Just because we both came up with Azrael, Angel of Death doesn't mean we stole it from you. We both dipped into the same prior resource. And if you look at our Azrael, you'll see it's a different character, though their powers might seem -- logically enough with both being angels of Death -- similar. (Actually, we don't have any plans for an Angel of Death, yet, and maybe never will.)

When we see someone's work we like, we make an offer to buy it from them, or else we just don't use it. However, we can't let ourselves be restrained from doing an Angel of X just because a fan also did an Angel of X. Remember that the In Nomine copyright, which includes all derivative works (even In Nomine characters), belongs to SJ Games. Does that mean that we own your Angel of X that you wrote? No. Does that mean we could have told you "You may not publish (including web and list publishing) any In Nomine characters without our permission"? Oh, yes. We could have. But we don't, 'cause that's just plain stupid to do in this industry.

However, if we get enough people annoying us and claiming that we're stealing their In Nomine ideas (which we ain't), we just may have to stop allowing fan-created publication of In Nomine-derived copyrighted material. If you're afraid that we'll steal your ideas, keep them to yourselves. You don't have a right to publish them -- we do. We allow you to publish and share your creations 'cause we're Nice Guys. Don't make us turn and become like those Grumpy Guys.
The reason I suggest an actual text disclaimer is because, at one point, I shared some of my proto-material with a friend for a fan-only project she was working on, and she forgot that the material (which she'd incorporated into her document) was mine! So there was a bit of drama when that same material showed up in the Game Master's Guide. I'd like to avoid drama and misunderstandings! (A simple "hey, did you ever see X? could I get inspirational credit errataed or is this parallel evolution?" email is a lot less drama than "AHHH! You STOLE my WORK!")



A note on the original message:
Quote:
(Subordinates include the angel of KART and the Angel of NASCAR)
Generally, I'd figure that the Seraphim Council would be very leery of giving a "modern" Word that might fade out in a few decades. The Demon of Buggy Whips died when its Word lost power...
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Old 08-30-2006, 01:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: Lesser wordbounds: brainstorming.

As far as I'm concerned, I'll just be flattered if you guys use something I've postd here. If I think it's good enough SELL, I'll approach SJG on that seperately.
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Old 08-30-2006, 04:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Lesser wordbounds: brainstorming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timespike
As far as I'm concerned, I'll just be flattered if you guys use something I've postd here. If I think it's good enough SELL, I'll approach SJG on that seperately.
Keep in mind that the user agreement discusses this specifically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user agreement
By posting any item to the message areas here, you grant your permission for Steve Jackson Games to archive it permanently, and allow public or private access to it, as we see fit. By maintaining these discussion areas, we acquire a "compilation copyright" on their contents. If you make a suggestion here, you may not later deny SJ Games, or its customers, the right to use that suggestion!

Any posting not carrying an explicit copyright notice is also assumed to be a contribution to Steve Jackson Games, for any use the company sees fit, including later publication in whole or in part under the SJ Games copyright. If you don't want to give us this right, don't post the material!
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Old 08-30-2006, 05:36 PM   #15
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Default Re: Lesser wordbounds: brainstorming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbug
Keep in mind that the user agreement discusses this specifically.
It should be noted that nothing seems more paradoxical than that passage with respect to what Archangel Beth said. If I'm not making sense let me highlight two things:

Quote:
When we see someone's work we like, we make an offer to buy it from them, or else we just don't use it.
Quote:
Any posting not carrying an explicit copyright notice is also assumed to be a contribution to Steve Jackson Games, for any use the company sees fit, including later publication in whole or in part under the SJ Games copyright. If you don't want to give us this right, don't post the material!
If we assume that the rules for the list do apply to the forum as Beth implies then the conclusion is that Steve Jackson games has the legal right to steal your idea and wants to make that very, very explicit from the point you join, however not the volition.

In other words Steve Jackson Games is allowed to use your work in any way they see fit, and the only way they see fit to use it (wrt In Nomine) is to ignore it or to get your permission.

Last edited by chris the cynic; 08-30-2006 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 08-31-2006, 05:55 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lesser wordbounds: brainstorming.

I agree with the previous posters that the Council wouldn't give out too modern Words or Words that may fade quickly. IMC I wouldn't assign a Word like Cars because in the eyes of beings like Michael or Eli it might be a passing fad. Lucifer might well assing it, though.

Also, I usually assign to Mercurians Words that directly affect humans, such as Teachers, Police Officers or Artists (as opposed to Teaching, the Police or Art). YMMV, of course.

Of course, almost every Word can be given to an angel of any choir. Different choirs just promote a Word differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timespike
David
Angel of Labor Unions (Mercurian)
That's an awfully young Word for Stone. What about Angel of Protecting Workers? Old, powerful and busy. Could also be Elohite or Cherub instead of Mercurian.

Quote:
Angel of Blood (Kyriotate) *
* This angel takes the word of blood and applies it BROADLY. It can mean violence, sure, but also famililial ties, blood transfusions, blood brothers....
The problem is that it's more like Angel of Things that in English has the word Blood in them.

Quote:
Angel of Lawyers (Seraph)
As long as he doesn't have an actual role as a lawyer... Maybe the Angel of Law would be more suited to a Seraph?

Quote:
Angel of Graffitti (Kyriotate)
Ouch, very specific. How about the Angel of Art Must Be Free? Or just a non-Worded servitor of the Angel of Painting?

Quote:
Angel of Vigilantes (Malakite)
A slap against both Dominic and Laurence? :)
Quote:
Angel of Bounty Hunters (Ofanite)
Ofanite might be more suited to the Word of Hunting criminals for pay instead of taking care of the Bounty Hunters themselves. Possibly Word of Hunting Criminals might be better. Why should an Gabrielite care if it got payed or not?

Quote:
Angel of Fireplaces (Mercurian)
Angel of Campfires (Kyriotate)
Considering how long people have had campfires, the Mercurian might be the Kyriotates servitor.

Quote:
Janus
Angel of Higway Patrollmen (Ofanite)(Servitor of judgment in service to the wind, against all reason)
This is again very specific. The Word of Patrolling Highways might be more suitable for an Ofanite but it's still very specific. The ofanite could be just a non- Worded servitor of the Angel of Hunting Criminals.

Quote:
Angel of Rollercoasters (Mercurian)
Angel of Racing (Ofanite) (Subordinates include the angel of KART and the Angel of NASCAR)
These are very modern and very specific except for the Angel of Racing. Unfortunately, I don't have anything else to suggest.

Quote:
Angel of Power Lines (Ofanite)
These could include metaphorical power among humans and be a Mercurian instead. Otherwise it's very specific. How about Angel of Transferring Power or something like that?

Quote:
Angel of Duelling (Malakite)
Angel of Swordplay (Malakite)
How are these two distinct from each other and Laurence? They seem kind of redundant.

Quote:
Angel of Chivalry (Malakite)
There is a canonical Angel of Etiquette. Chivalry seems redundant.

Quote:
Angel of Lost-and-Found (Cherub)
What does she do? If she's just a clerk at the lost-and-found that's very modern and Western centric.

I could see an Angel of Finding.

Quote:
Angel of Forensics (Elohite)
Angel of Profiling (Mercurian)
Both of these are again very modern and specific. If Jean knows that forensics is never going to be redundant, then the Council could give out the Word. Both could also be combine to a broader Angel of Catching Criminals.

Quote:
Angel of Benefits (Cherub)*
*As in: Inurance, Sick time, etc.
Angel of Insurance (Elohite)
Both are very modern and Western centric. They could be combined to the Stone Angel of Protecting Workers and be non-WordBound just working on these specific things.

Quote:
Angel of Soldiers (Malakite) (Subordinates include the angel of special forces, the angel of support troops, the angel of drill instructors, etc.)
IIRC Special Forces are again quite modern unless it's used in a broader use of any specialized force working in an army.

Quote:
Angel of Football
Presumably it's been around since football was inventend thousands of years ago.

Quote:
Angel of Coaches (Elohite)
Again, very modern and Western centric. How about combining it with Teaching?

Quote:
Angel of Fiction (Mercurian)
Or possibly an Elohite.

Quote:
Angel of Site Security (Malakite)
Angel of Firewalls (Kyriotate)
These two are very specific. What about just Angel of Security? He could easily have non-WordBound working for him.

What about Angels of Protection from Fires? Broader in both effect and age.

Quote:
Angel of Paramedics (Ofanite)
What about First Aid instead? Paramedics is very specific.
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Old 08-31-2006, 10:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lesser wordbounds: brainstorming.

<quote>Angel of Rollercoasters (Mercurian) </quote>

if you want something less specific and more likely to last that will get accross the idea- how about the angel of thrill rides. Thrill rides aren't necessarily new and I don't think they'll ever go out of style.
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Old 09-01-2006, 07:49 AM   #18
Archangel Beth
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Default Re: Lesser wordbounds: brainstorming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris the cynic
If we assume that the rules for the list do apply to the forum as Beth implies then the conclusion is that Steve Jackson games has the legal right to steal your idea and wants to make that very, very explicit from the point you join, however not the volition.

In other words Steve Jackson Games is allowed to use your work in any way they see fit, and the only way they see fit to use it (wrt In Nomine) is to ignore it or to get your permission.
The forum rules trump the listrules on the forum. They're also more recent, and not crafted with reference to the listrules, I bet.

However, you'd probably be right about what SJ Games desires to do. As I understand it, SJ Games needs the legal right to take anything thrust into their faces -- such as by putting it on the forums where everyone can see and SJ Games freelancers and staff are likely to see -- so that spurious lawsuits have duller teeth and cost less money to defend against.

Mind, SJ has a strong sense of honor and politeness. He doesn't want to take something that someone else wrote. He wants to be fair and either not use something, or make an offer for it fairly.

But, on the other wingtip, sometimes ideas, shown to the public, do seep down into the subconscious, and an author will honestly forget that it's not an original idea. (I've seen this happen. There was some drama before it was resolved that the idea in question was originally mine. I've also done a search on mailing list archives, and discovered that a terminology that we wanted to use was -- happily -- first used by my spouse. Whew.) Trying to do a net-wide or forum-wide search on everything that every author writes, in case someone else wrote something like it, and comparing the dates... That's just impossible, and doesn't exclude the idea of parallel evolution.

So, in honor, I would never knowingly approve use of something without proper credit. If a freelancer actually ripped someone off without crediting, and I found out about it, that freelancer would not get more work from me -- and probably no one at SJ Games, if SJ has anything to say about it. To swipe stuff deliberately is repugnant to us.

But I cannot guarantee that the subconscious minds of everyone involved won't pick up some concept and make off with it like Magpies in the night, and want to make that clear. And I can't guarantee that someone who never actually sees the material won't come up with very similar material, in independent evolution! The fear of accusations of intellectual theft can't be a straightjacket, or there's no hope of new material being published.
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Last edited by Archangel Beth; 09-05-2006 at 06:36 AM. Reason: is-if typo
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Old 09-04-2006, 10:03 AM   #19
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Default Re: Lesser wordbounds: brainstorming.

Okay, how's this then:

If I think I have something REALLY good, I'll keep itin reserve and craft it into a proposal for a pyramid article or something.

The odds of that happening are about 1 in 6 zillion.

Feel free to use whatever I post, with or without crediting me, modifying it however you choose. Whatever I slap up on these boards will be an exercise in venting my creativity.
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Old 09-05-2006, 06:37 AM   #20
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Default Re: Lesser wordbounds: brainstorming.

*grin*

That works, I suspect. Thanks.
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