Why be a Free Lilim?

[zogo]

Originally Posted by Sagitta

I'd say they also have access to much abler lawyers than the Grigori did.

Better than lawyers. They have Lilith. Lilith won't help out her daughters for free individually, but as a group their interests match hers considerably. Lilith, due to how she understands her word CAN'T have normal servitors, but Free Lilim automatically owe her a great deal of time.

Lilith can't be just ignored by the other Princes on this issue, because she is the ONLY source of additional Lilim, and Hell won't give up something as valuable as Lilim just because of theoretical issues. Plus, it's believed that stomping Lilith would Annoy The Lightbringer, which Saminga is too smart to do, much less the intelligent Princes.

[timespike]

Originally Posted by Sagitta

Fair comment. Lilim are arguably the most selfish Band, and their resonance is for encouraging selfishness in others, so assembling a test case to convict Free Lilim as a bloc would not be straightforward. I'd say they also have access to much abler lawyers than the Grigori did.

I've always had trouble envisioning either Lilith or Lilim as being any fun. I've always pictured them as self-centered, bitchy, unreasonable, psycho gold-digger types.

[milliken]

Originally Posted by timespike

I've always had trouble envisioning either Lilith or Lilim as being any fun. I've always pictured them as self-centered, bitchy, unreasonable, psycho gold-digger types.

And what's not fun about that?

OK, I couldn't resist the straight line....

Certainly that's one end of the spectrum, the other end tends to be the "enlightened self interest" sorts, who've figured out the way to maximize their return on investment is to be constructive and semi-nice. Most are probably somewhere in the middle in the "default" state of In Nomine,
where demons are supposed to be kinda grayish.

---Walter

[Glamourweaver]

Free Lilim don't have Hearts? I thought Lilith made ones for them & they were kept in the Guildhall... (or perhaps that's only the ones who opt to take on Lilith's Rites & Dissonance Condition)

[milliken]

Originally Posted by Glamourweaver

Free Lilim don't have Hearts? I thought Lilith made ones for them & they were kept in the Guildhall... (or perhaps that's only the ones who opt to take on Lilith's Rites & Dissonance Condition)

No, and no, I believe. Free Lilim start with no Heart, and they get Lilith's Rites and dissonance only if they are working for her. And that doesn't necessarily get them a Heart -- but they can bargain with Lilith for one (or a Prince, though that's unlikely without binding). Or a False Heart (from Liber Reliquarum). Keeping a Heart safe in the Guildhall would cost extra, of course.

[Archangel Beth]

Free Lilim have no Hearts at creation.

EDIT: This is implied (though not explicit) by the last sentence under "Finding Work" on p. 25 of the Lilith PDF.

They can, at creation or at any point while working for Lilith, choose to take the Rites-Dissonance Condition package of Freedom. (That's in the PDF. I don't know how I managed to not put the "no Hearts" thing in there in big boldface letters. Sheesh. I need to create errata for that.)

Theoretically, they could bargain for a Heart from a Prince. (In my campaigns, the Heart is the source of the Dissonance Conditions, though, and to have a true Heart is to be a Bound demon. Thus, my Lilith doesn't make 'em.) False Hearts are more useful, but have their own risks. Most Princes would want to keep the Heart themselves... Or the false Heart (though that's one Lilith might mutter about and make for you, for the right price). Safe space in the Guildhall would, of course, cost rent.

[milliken]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

Free Lilim have no Hearts at creation.

EDIT: This is implied (though not explicit) by the last sentence under "Finding Work" on p. 25 of the Lilith PDF.

It's also explicitly stated in the Band description of Lilim in the core rules on page 148, under "Free Lilim".

---Walter

[Archangel Beth]

PDF version? *checks* PDF version, right.

I'm not sure the dead-trees versions had it. Or at least that first printing did; I seem to recall going through the "do they don't they" question before.

Well, at least it's somewhere.

[zogo]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

I'm not sure the dead-trees versions had it. Or at least that first printing did; I seem to recall going through the "do they don't they" question before.

Well, at least it's somewhere.

First printing did NOT but the Blue Hardback did.

[Archangel Beth]

Ha, thanks. *hands over an Archives Essence cookie*