Familiars and roles

timespike · 08-08-2006, 02:55 PM

Can a familiar have a role? I was working on an NPC last night and kind of stumbled upon the question. What I want to do is make a Malakite with a police officer role, with a famiiar servant who has a role as a police dog. Assuming the answer is "yes" to the role question, what level & status does the role of "police dog" have? 1/2, maybe?

And then, that got me thinking. What level and status of a role would be good for entertainment animals, rescue animals, race horses, etc.?

William · 08-08-2006, 04:15 PM

If it's a natural animal, it doesn't require a role. If it's a demonling, pagan spirit, or Reliever in a Vessel, it can have a Role like a like any other entity. Status would be about as low as it can go, being a status of "no human rights," but isn't the level of a Role simply dependent on how much time is spent living the Role?

timespike · 08-08-2006, 05:05 PM

From my understanding of the role rules on page 43 of the In Nomine core rules (1st edition) it's a measure of how firmly attached to the symphony you are. If you've got a level 1 role, you're certainly a cop, you have a uniform, a desk, a badge, a squad car, there's police roprts with your name on 'em, but you're just "that guy". Nobody really likes or dislikes you in an intense sort of way, you're not tremendously socially connected, and if you disappear, nobody will take too much notice. Since K9 officers tend to get moved around and loaned to other departments a lot, but are definitely specialized professionals, I took a role/1, status/4 instead of role/2 ,status/3 for the malakite, and since the dogs have (lots!) more legal protections than an ordinary animal, the reliever spirit is role/1, status/2.

The reliever doesn't have as many corporeal forces as a normal large dog does, but he's also smarter, and a regular german shepherd doesn't have the corporeal song of healing at level 2 or the ethereal song of affinity at level 4, either...

If anybody wants to see them, I'll be happy to post Hadriel and Rexiel.

zogo · 08-08-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timespike

but are definitely specialized professionals, I took a role/1, status/4 instead of role/2 ,status/3 for the malakite, and since the dogs have (lots!) more legal protections than an ordinary animal, the reliever spirit is role/1, status/2.

I will point out that by the RAW you cannot have a Status higher than the Role level. All the level/status combinations you listed are illegal.

Secondly I had the impression that roles had to be human roles, but I could totally be wrong.

milliken · 08-09-2006, 06:37 AM

Page 43 of the core rules explicitly states that only human vessels can have roles, and that animal ones cannot.

Frankly, I'd be tempted to ignore that in my own campaign, though -- some animals are connected well enough to human society to be interwoven with it: Lassie, Rin Tin Tin, and Morris the cat, for example. (Yes, some of those were actually several different animals, but still, they were very tied into human society.)

However, the role mechanics were specifically designed for human roles, so the whole level and status thing is going to be wonky. According to the core rules, I'd have to put an animal role at status 0, with maybe the most famous animals that people would react well to (Lassie, say), at status 1 or maybe 2, since status affects reaction rolls, and no human is going to have a *really* positive reaction to an animal much beyond "nice doggy!" and the like. Similarly, animals can't call people up on the phone and get them to do things for them (another aspect of status in the game). On the other hand, there's no reason the role level can't go up to 6 -- it's just a really well-linked-to-the-Symphony dog.

Frankly, I don't think most humans will have any positive reaction to a police dog (they tend to look scary), nor does it have much chance to significantly influence human society, so I'd say status should be zero. There's no cost for status 0 in the regular rules, I'd suggest treating it as half the cost of status 1, rather than multiplying the role level by zero.

---Walter

zogo · 08-09-2006, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milliken

Page 43 of the core rules explicitly states that only human vessels can have roles, and that animal ones cannot.

I thought that was there but ddn't go look it up so I wasn't sure. Of course Jordi's Choir Attunements are, in some ways, even better thatn Roles (no Disturbance from non-supernatural actions) if you can get 'em

Methariel · 08-09-2006, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milliken

Frankly, I'd be tempted to ignore that in my own campaign, though -- some animals are connected well enough to human society to be interwoven with it: Lassie, Rin Tin Tin, and Morris the cat, for example. (Yes, some of those were actually several different animals, but still, they were very tied into human society.)

But would that work? I don't believe that Roles can be made in such a way that the Symphony believes there is a real Lassie or Rin Tin Tin. (For Roles in general "make the Symphony believe" that X is a part of it that belongs there (as Francis X. Bushman, Hollywood producer - a very influential, but ordinary human and not...you know who).)
But Lassie and Rin Tin Tin are fictions. I think they'd be prime stuff for Ethereals (and I'm sure that there is an ethereal "Lassie" around (or even more than one)), but not for Roles.

Methariel

alexondria · 08-09-2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methariel

But would that work? I don't believe that Roles can be made in such a way that the Symphony believes there is a real Lassie or Rin Tin Tin. (For Roles in general "make the Symphony believe" that X is a part of it that belongs there (as Francis X. Bushman, Hollywood producer - a very influential, but ordinary human and not...you know who).)
But Lassie and Rin Tin Tin are fictions. I think they'd be prime stuff for Ethereals (and I'm sure that there is an ethereal "Lassie" around (or even more than one)), but not for Roles.

Methariel

I could be wrong, but the way that I read what he said was that you could have role as Lassie for example during the time of Lassie that dog might have been a celestial w/ a role and status as Lassie. People would recognize them as Lassie. That doesn't meen that they believe the dog did all the things it did on the show- that would mean that they recognized it as the well trained, famous dog, that played everyone's favorite collie.

alexondria · 08-09-2006, 09:12 AM

On the same note- how are you officialy supposed to deal w/ a persona that is more recognizable than the person.

For example how many of you have heard of:
Cassandra Peterson?
Elvira- "the hostess with the mostest"?

I would probably just make them pay for the higher of the two roles- since it seems wrong to make them buy 2 roles for the same vessel, but on the other hand for people that want to keep the power level down- that opens up doors they probably don't want open. -2 roles for the price of one- Both look signifigantly difrent from each other.

timespike · 08-09-2006, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zogo

I will point out that by the RAW you cannot have a Status higher than the Role level. All the level/status combinations you listed are illegal.

I must have missed that. Page reference?

08-08-2006, 02:55 PM	#1
timespike Join Date: Dec 2005	Familiars and roles Can a familiar have a role? I was working on an NPC last night and kind of stumbled upon the question. What I want to do is make a Malakite with a police officer role, with a famiiar servant who has a role as a police dog. Assuming the answer is "yes" to the role question, what level & status does the role of "police dog" have? 1/2, maybe? And then, that got me thinking. What level and status of a role would be good for entertainment animals, rescue animals, race horses, etc.? __________________ Ever Vigilant Ever Prepared "May you never meet a truly good man, he'll kill you without a word." -Sam Vimes from Men at Arms by Terry Pratchett

08-08-2006, 04:15 PM	#2
William Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan	Re: Familiars and roles If it's a natural animal, it doesn't require a role. If it's a demonling, pagan spirit, or Reliever in a Vessel, it can have a Role like a like any other entity. Status would be about as low as it can go, being a status of "no human rights," but isn't the level of a Role simply dependent on how much time is spent living the Role?

08-08-2006, 05:05 PM	#3
timespike Join Date: Dec 2005	Re: Familiars and roles From my understanding of the role rules on page 43 of the In Nomine core rules (1st edition) it's a measure of how firmly attached to the symphony you are. If you've got a level 1 role, you're certainly a cop, you have a uniform, a desk, a badge, a squad car, there's police roprts with your name on 'em, but you're just "that guy". Nobody really likes or dislikes you in an intense sort of way, you're not tremendously socially connected, and if you disappear, nobody will take too much notice. Since K9 officers tend to get moved around and loaned to other departments a lot, but are definitely specialized professionals, I took a role/1, status/4 instead of role/2 ,status/3 for the malakite, and since the dogs have (lots!) more legal protections than an ordinary animal, the reliever spirit is role/1, status/2. The reliever doesn't have as many corporeal forces as a normal large dog does, but he's also smarter, and a regular german shepherd doesn't have the corporeal song of healing at level 2 or the ethereal song of affinity at level 4, either... If anybody wants to see them, I'll be happy to post Hadriel and Rexiel. __________________ Ever Vigilant Ever Prepared "May you never meet a truly good man, he'll kill you without a word." -Sam Vimes from Men at Arms by Terry Pratchett Last edited by timespike; 08-08-2006 at 05:12 PM.

08-09-2006, 06:37 AM	#5
milliken Join Date: Aug 2004	Re: Familiars and roles Page 43 of the core rules explicitly states that only human vessels can have roles, and that animal ones cannot. Frankly, I'd be tempted to ignore that in my own campaign, though -- some animals are connected well enough to human society to be interwoven with it: Lassie, Rin Tin Tin, and Morris the cat, for example. (Yes, some of those were actually several different animals, but still, they were very tied into human society.) However, the role mechanics were specifically designed for human roles, so the whole level and status thing is going to be wonky. According to the core rules, I'd have to put an animal role at status 0, with maybe the most famous animals that people would react well to (Lassie, say), at status 1 or maybe 2, since status affects reaction rolls, and no human is going to have a really positive reaction to an animal much beyond "nice doggy!" and the like. Similarly, animals can't call people up on the phone and get them to do things for them (another aspect of status in the game). On the other hand, there's no reason the role level can't go up to 6 -- it's just a really well-linked-to-the-Symphony dog. Frankly, I don't think most humans will have any positive reaction to a police dog (they tend to look scary), nor does it have much chance to significantly influence human society, so I'd say status should be zero. There's no cost for status 0 in the regular rules, I'd suggest treating it as half the cost of status 1, rather than multiplying the role level by zero. ---Walter

08-09-2006, 09:12 AM	#9
alexondria Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Atlanta GA	Re: Familiars and roles On the same note- how are you officialy supposed to deal w/ a persona that is more recognizable than the person. For example how many of you have heard of: Cassandra Peterson? Elvira- "the hostess with the mostest"? I would probably just make them pay for the higher of the two roles- since it seems wrong to make them buy 2 roles for the same vessel, but on the other hand for people that want to keep the power level down- that opens up doors they probably don't want open. -2 roles for the price of one- Both look signifigantly difrent from each other.