[Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

[naloth]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

I based it on the Dreadnought template from Supers, which uses DR25 on its Breakable, the -10% version of Can Be Stolen, and Superscience.

The problem wasn't really with those limitations, but more a question if you wanted them to apply to an Iron Man build. Often anyone can put on armor and use it, even if it's high tech stuff. Also, it's very 4-color for a battlesuit to have DR25 (or less) spots that can be directly attacked even if they can't hurt the occupant.

Nuisance Effect (Real armor) also comes from Supers, and it represents the fact that if it's disabled in combat, it's so heavy that it effectively immobilizes him until he can get free.

Seems fair and that was true in his early (golden) suits.

Re: Maintenance, I considered it, but as a limitation, it requires an hour of maintenance per advantage per week, which would be several dozen hours for a build like this. With this many points in the armor, would a general Maintenance disadvantage with the special effect that it affects the armor rather than himself be fair?

Sure, make it a metatrait.

I didn't count how many advantages it would apply to (and you could leave it off cheap ones like Absolute Direction, even if you don't trade that for a GPS unit).

FWIW, you can use "Accessory" for anything inbuilt that can be purchased. "Accessory: Inbuilt Cell Phone [1]" gives him google, the ability to make calls, voice text, and any other app a phone could do.

[AlexanderHowl]

Alternatively, you could purchase it as a Signature Gear. With High TL+2 [10], you could purchase the following as 116 CP of Signature Gear:

TL 10 Heavy Battlesuit with Helmet (500 lbs; $210,000) plus integral systems:
-TL10 Personal Computer (Left Arm; Complexity 7; 4 lbs; $1,000) with Complexity 5 Silhouette Program ($200) and Complexity 6 Targeting Program (+4 to hit; $600)
-TL10 Laser Carbine (Right Arm; Normal/Pulse; 4.48 lbs; $9,200) and 20 TL 10 C-Cells (Consumable Signature Gear; $1,000)
-TL10 Sonic Stun Rifle (Right Arm; 4 lbs; $2,000) and 20 TL 10 C-Cells (Consumable Signature Gear; $1600)
-TL10 Gauss Rifle (Right Arm; 6.8 lbs; $7,100) and 10 10mmG Magazines (1 TL 10 C-Cell [Consumable Signature Gear; $50[ plus 60 4mm [Consumable Signature Gear; $18]; Total Cost [$680])
-TL10 Portable Railgun (Right Arm; 16 lbs; $18,000) and 10 4mm Magazines (1 TL 10 C-Cell [Consumable Signature Gear; $50] plus 25 10mmG [Consumable Signature Gear; $100]; Total Cost [$1500])
-TL10 MLAWS (Left Shoulder; 28 lbs; $23,000) and 1 64mm Magazines (6 TL 10 Viper HEMP 64mm [Consumable Signature Gear; $12,600]
Total: 563.3 lbs; $287,880 ($1,151,520 at TL8; 116 CP)
Notes: The extra reloads are not carried internally in the Heavy Battlesuit and count as encumbrance if carried separately. The helmet systems and the personal computer are assumed to run off the internal reactor of the Heavy Battlesuit.

That would give you a fair number of traits that you would not have to price out as abilities. For example, the Basic Move+2, DR 150/100, Lifting ST+20, Striking ST +20, and Super Jump 1, not to mention the attacks from the integral weapon systems and the life support systems. Additional traits could be added to the system easily. For example:

-Flight Systems (Flight, Air Move+6, plus Enhanced Move (Air) 7; Air Move 22/2,816) [192] (Notes: The character is capable of accelerating 22 yards/second, meaning that it takes them a little over two minutes to accelerate to maximum velocity. At the maximum velocity of over 5,600 mph, the character can get anywhere on Earth within 3 hours).

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Alternatively, you could purchase it as a Signature Gear. With High TL+2 [10], you could purchase the following as 116 CP of Signature Gear:

TL 10 Heavy Battlesuit with Helmet (500 lbs; $210,000) plus integral systems:
-TL10 Personal Computer (Left Arm; Complexity 7; 4 lbs; $1,000) with Complexity 5 Silhouette Program ($200) and Complexity 6 Targeting Program (+4 to hit; $600)
-TL10 Laser Carbine (Right Arm; Normal/Pulse; 4.48 lbs; $9,200) and 20 TL 10 C-Cells (Consumable Signature Gear; $1,000)
-TL10 Sonic Stun Rifle (Right Arm; 4 lbs; $2,000) and 20 TL 10 C-Cells (Consumable Signature Gear; $1600)
-TL10 Gauss Rifle (Right Arm; 6.8 lbs; $7,100) and 10 10mmG Magazines (1 TL 10 C-Cell [Consumable Signature Gear; $50[ plus 60 4mm [Consumable Signature Gear; $18]; Total Cost [$680])
-TL10 Portable Railgun (Right Arm; 16 lbs; $18,000) and 10 4mm Magazines (1 TL 10 C-Cell [Consumable Signature Gear; $50] plus 25 10mmG [Consumable Signature Gear; $100]; Total Cost [$1500])
-TL10 MLAWS (Left Shoulder; 28 lbs; $23,000) and 1 64mm Magazines (6 TL 10 Viper HEMP 64mm [Consumable Signature Gear; $12,600]
Total: 563.3 lbs; $287,880 ($1,151,520 at TL8; 116 CP)
Notes: The extra reloads are not carried internally in the Heavy Battlesuit and count as encumbrance if carried separately. The helmet systems and the personal computer are assumed to run off the internal reactor of the Heavy Battlesuit.

That would give you a fair number of traits that you would not have to price out as abilities. For example, the Basic Move+2, DR 150/100, Lifting ST+20, Striking ST +20, and Super Jump 1, not to mention the attacks from the integral weapon systems and the life support systems. Additional traits could be added to the system easily. For example:

-Flight Systems (Flight, Air Move+6, plus Enhanced Move (Air) 7; Air Move 22/2,816) [192] (Notes: The character is capable of accelerating 22 yards/second, meaning that it takes them a little over two minutes to accelerate to maximum velocity. At the maximum velocity of over 5,600 mph, the character can get anywhere on Earth within 3 hours).

Did you... did you even read the response I wrote to your previous post?

[AlexanderHowl]

Yes, I did, I just thought I would give a write up of the idea for the character.

[awesomenessofme1]

Hulk

Real Name: Robert Bruce Banner
Height: 5’9” (as Banner), 8’5” (as Hulk)
Weight: 140 lb (as Banner), 1100 lb (as Hulk)
Age: 33
Hair: Brown (as Banner), black (as Hulk)
Eyes: Brown (as Banner), green (as Hulk)
Uniform: None (as Banner), whatever clothes left from what Banner was wearing (as Hulk)
Powers: Reflexive transformation into Hulk when injured or under severe stress or frustration (as Banner). Superhuman strength allowing him to lift over 25 tons. Regenerative abilities, in particular a regenerative “burst” immediately after transformation. Extreme durability. Prodigious jumping strength. (as Hulk)
Skills: Expert in biochemistry and nuclear physics (with a particular focus on gamma radiation). As Hulk, natural skill in unsophisticated unarmed combat.

The son of an abusive single father, Bruce Banner poured himself into scientific studies from an early age, first as an escape, then as a passion. He proved to have a natural talent for it, getting two PhDs (in biochemistry and nuclear physics) by age 28. Due to his extensive knowledge of gamma radiation, Banner was recruited by a government black project studying possible methods of using radiation to physically enhance humans. He was attracted to the project over the potential medical applications, but the higher-up motivations were always military. Over his time working on the project, Banner became personally attached. When he had reached a breakthrough, he refused to risk someone else’s life and demanded to be the test subject. He was bombarded by concentrated gamma rays, combined with several other types of radiation at precise frequencies. Unfortunately, a software glitch led to a significantly stronger dose of gamma radiation than intended. Combined with several untested physiology-boosting drugs in his system and a few genetic quirks of his DNA, this led to a massive physical change in Banner. He gained almost three feet of height and half a ton of mass, with an even greater increase in strength and durability, as well as a radical change in physical appearance, including bright green skin. In a rampage, this “Hulk” escaped the research facility. A few hours later, Banner woke up, mostly naked, in the middle of a clearing that used to be a forest. He had only fuzzy memories of what had happened. It took a second Hulk-out for him to fully understand the situation. For about a month, he moved from place to place, before the military caught up with him, and he barely escaped.

Once he realized for sure he was on the run, Banner fled the country. He spent the next year making his way south further and further, before settling for a while in the outskirts of Rio. During his time in South America, he took up meditation as an attempt to control the Hulk. He had realized that the Hulk was created from the inner anger issues that he had buried, and it emerged in times of stress, injury, or excitement. Banner's experiments in meditation weren’t fully successful, but he was able to reach the point where he can (most of the time) stop himself from transforming and also can turn himself into the Hulk intentionally while retaining some degree of control. The second part he only learned about later. About a year and a half ago, Banner was accosted by a gang. Despite his best efforts to resist, he turned into the Hulk during the confrontation. The next few days are unclear in his memory. He thinks he turned into Banner again at least once, but all he can remember for certain is waking up in Panama after several days of travel. Understanding this as a subconscious desire to go back to the US, after a few weeks staying in place to make himself confident in his ability to control himself, he began his return. Not too long after, the supervillain Loki deliberately engineered a Hulk rampage in public as part of his inscrutable plans. This led to the formation of the Avengers, of which both Hulk and Banner became founding members in their own ways.

Despite his newfound connections, Banner still always needs to be on the lookout for the military, who are still pursuing him. He can’t stay in the same place for too long, not even in Avengers Tower under the protection of Tony Stark. Hulk is slowly beginning to accumulate public support after his initial poor introduction.

Bruce Banner [1127]

Attributes [55]
ST 10 [0]
DX 10 [0]
IQ 14 [80]
HT 10 [0]
Damage 1d-2/1d
BL 20 lb
HP 10 [0]
Will 12 [-10]
Per 11 [-15]
FP 10 [0]
Basic Speed 5.00 [0]
Basic Move 5 [0]
Dodge 8
SM0

Languages [4]
English (Native) [0]
Portuguese (Broken) [2]
Spanish (Broken) [2]

Advantages [1085]
Alternate Form (Hulk (1100 more points); Active Change, +20%; Reflexive, +40%; Emergencies Only, -30%; Uncontrollable, -30%) [1005]
Eidetic Memory [5]
Natural Scientist 2 [20]
Single-Minded [5]
Unkillable 1 [50]

Disadvantages [-42]
Bad Sight (Nearsighted; Mitigator, -60%) [-10]
Enemy (US Military, 6 or less, Hunter) [-20]
Nightmares (15) [-2]
Pacifism (Reluctant Killer) [-5]
Shyness (Mild) [-5]

Quirks [-4]
Careful [-1]
Daily Ritual (Meditation) [-1]
Responsible [-1]
Uncongenial [-1]

Skills [65]
Area Knowledge (Dayton, Ohio)-14 [1]
Area Knowledge (Latin America)-14 [1]
Area Knowledge (New York City)-14 [1]
Area Knowledge (United States)-14 [1]
Bicycling-10 [1]
Bioengineering/TL8 (Genetic Engineering)-14 [4]
Biology/TL8 (Biochemistry)-16 [8] ¹
Brawling-10 [1]
Breath Control-9 [2]
Chemistry/TL8-16 [4] ¹
Computer Operation-15 [2]
Current Affairs/TL8 (Headline News)-14 [1]
Current Affairs/TL8 (Science & Technology)-15 [2]
Driving/TL8 (Automobile)-10 [1]
Electronics Operation/TL8 (Scientific)-14 [2]
Hazardous Materials/TL8 (Nuclear)-13 [1]
Intimidation-10 [1]
Mathematics/TL8 (Applied)-16 [4] ¹
Mathematics/TL8 (Pure)-13 [2]
Meditation-12 [4]
Physics/TL8 (Nuclear)-18 [12] ¹
Research/TL8-15 [4]
Stealth-10 [1]
Swimming-10 [1]
Urban Survival-10 [1]
Weird Science-12 [2]

1 – includes +2 from Natural Scientist

Hulk [+1100]

Attributes [264]
ST+20 (Size, -10%) [180]
DX+2 [40]
IQ-6 [-120]
HT+6 [60]
HP+9 [Size, -10%] [17]
Will+8 [40]
Per+6 [30]
FP+4 [12]
Basic Move+1 [5]
SM+1 [0]

Languages [-8]
English (Accented/None) [-4]
Portuguese (None) [-2]
Spanish (None) [-2]

Advantages [869]
Combat Reflexes [15]
Damage Reduction (20) [200]
DR25 (Can’t wear armor, -40%; Tough Skin, -40%) [25]
Doesn’t Breathe (Oxygen Storage x25, -50%) [10]
Enhanced Move (Ground) 1 [20]
High Pain Threshold [10]
Injury Tolerance (Unstoppable) [10]
Nictitating Membrane 3 [3]
No Bad Sight [10]
No Nightmares [2]
No Shyness [5]
Radiation Tolerance (50) [25]
Regeneration (Fast; Heals Radiation, +40%) [70]
Regeneration (Upgrade to Extreme; Maximum Duration (10 seconds or until fully healed), -75%; Once per transformation, -10%) [20]
Resistant to Metabolic Hazards (+8) [15]
ST+11/+150 (Size 1, -10%; Super-Effort, +300%) [429]
Super Jump 3 [30]
Temperature Tolerance 20 (-75°F to 300°F) [20]

Perks [6]
No Careful [1]
No Daily Ritual [1]
No Responsible [1]
No Uncongenial [1]
Penetrating Voice [1]
Shtick (Shorts stretch to fit) [1]

Disadvantages [-105]
Appearance (Ugly) [-8]
Bad Temper (9) [-15]
Berserk (12) [-10]
Ham-Fisted [-5]
Impulsiveness (9) [-15]
Loner (9) [-7]
No Eidetic Memory [-5]
No Natural Scientist [-20]
No Single-Minded [-5]
Social Stigma (Monster) [-15]

Quirks [-1]
Third Person [-1]

Skills [25]
Brawling DX+3 [7]
Climbing DX [2]
Intimidation Will [3]
Jumping DX+2 [4]
Lifting HT [2]
Running HT-1 [1]
Throwing DX+1 [4]
Wrestling DX [2]

Full Hulk stat-block

Attributes
ST 41/180
DX 12
IQ 8
HT 16
Damage 4d+2/7d (19d/21d)
BL 336 lb (6480 lb)
HP 50
Will 14
Per 11
FP 20
Basic Speed 7.00
Basic Move 8
Dodge 11
SM+1

Languages
English (Accented/None)

Advantages
Combat Reflexes
Damage Reduction (20)
DR25 (Can’t wear armor; Tough Skin)
Doesn’t Breathe (Oxygen Storage x25)
Enhanced Move (Ground) 1
High Pain Threshold
Injury Tolerance (Unstoppable)
Nictitating Membrane 3
Radiation Tolerance (50)
Regeneration (Fast; Heals Radiation)
Regeneration (Upgrade to Extreme; Maximum Duration (10 seconds or until fully healed); Once per transformation)
Resistant to Metabolic Hazards (+8)
Super Jump 3
Temperature Tolerance 20 (-75°F to 300°F)
Unkillable 1

Perks
Penetrating Voice
Shtick (Shorts stretch to fit)

Disadvantages
Appearance (Ugly)
Bad Temper (9)
Berserk (12)
Enemy (US Military, 6 or less, Hunter)
Ham-Fisted
Impulsiveness (9)
Loner (9)
Pacifism (Reluctant Killer)
Social Stigma (Monster)

Quirks
Third-Person

Skills
Brawling-15
Breath Control-15
Climbing-12
Intimidation-16
Jumping-14
Lifting-16
Running-15
Stealth-11
Swimming-16
Throwing-13
Wrestling-12
Various Banner skills

[awesomenessofme1]

The Hulk build contains an example of questionable RAW. Normally, Reflexive can only be added to an advantage that takes one second or less to activate, but I thought it made enough sense to combine it with Active Change instead. This lets me fine-tune the build to do what I want. If Banner suffers significant injury (Hard to Kill means it's very unlikely to kill him unless it brings him to -5xHP), he begins to transform into the Hulk. In five seconds (Reflexive counts as a level of Reduced Time), he has fully transformed and his regeneration surge begins, healing him at 50 HP/second. This means even if he's at several times -HP from Banner injuries, he'll be fully healed within a few seconds, after which his regeneration slows down.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

The Hulk build contains an example of questionable RAW. Normally, Reflexive can only be added to an advantage that takes one second or less to activate, but I thought it made enough sense to combine it with Active Change instead. This lets me fine-tune the build to do what I want. If Banner suffers significant injury (Hard to Kill means it's very unlikely to kill him unless it brings him to -5xHP), he begins to transform into the Hulk. In five seconds (Reflexive counts as a level of Reduced Time), he has fully transformed and his regeneration surge begins, healing him at 50 HP/second. This means even if he's at several times -HP from Banner injuries, he'll be fully healed within a few seconds, after which his regeneration slows down.

I wouldn't have a problem with you using Reflexive to start transforming without taking an action, but I'm not sure why Banner wouldn't be able to take a turn to start it either. Obviously if you're using 5 seconds for the change, you're not that worried about time.

Active Change normally is to let you act during your change, which isn't what the TV show or movies typically showed. It's usually a few seconds of screaming, writhing, and clothes tearing during which Banner doesn't do anything useful. I'd drop Active Change and Reflexive and just convert to how ever much Reduced Time you need.

I'd also consider linking Alternate Form to Terror. Watching the change for the first time tends to freak people out or at least leave them stunned. A fright check seems quite appropriate.

Also, isn't his healing 40 HP/sec? His HP seems to be 41 (ST 10 + 20 as Hulk, +11 Super ST = 41).

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by naloth

I wouldn't have a problem with you using Reflexive to start transforming without taking an action, but I'm not sure why Banner wouldn't be able to take a turn to start it either. Obviously if you're using 5 seconds for the change, you're not that worried about time.

If he's unconscious. He has Hard to Kill, but not Hard to Subdue. So if someone tries to attack him in his sleep, or if he sustains massive injury and fails a consciousness check, he'll still transform.

Originally Posted by naloth

Active Change normally is to let you act during your change, which isn't what the TV show or movies typically showed. It's usually a few seconds of screaming, writhing, and clothes tearing during which Banner doesn't do anything useful. I'd drop Active Change and Reflexive and just convert to how ever much Reduced Time you need.

The way I'd rule it is if the transformation happens due to Uncontrollable, he'll have maybe a second of still being able to try to move before losing control. If he triggers it intentionally, he'll be able to act while transforming, like when he punches out the Leviathan in The Avengers.

Originally Posted by naloth

I'd also consider linking Alternate Form to Terror. Watching the change for the first time tends to freak people out or at least leave them stunned. A fright check seems quite appropriate.

That's an idea I hadn't thought of. I'll consider it.

Originally Posted by naloth

Also, isn't his healing 40 HP/sec? His HP seems to be 41 (ST 10 + 20 as Hulk, +11 Super ST = 41).

You missed the additional +9 HP, for a total of 50.

[AlexanderHowl]

He is really weak for the Hulk. The Hulk is supposed to be the strongest and toughest person on Earth. Of course, his strength and toughness increases with his anger, which is difficult to represent. By the way, Hulk can and has worn armor in the comics, so CWA would be an invalid modifier, and he shrugs off energy attacks as easily as physical attacks, so Physical Only (-20%) is probably not a valid modifier for Damage Reduction.

One way to represent the anger would be to give levels of Injury Tolerance and Super-ST the modifier of Accessibility (Only while Berserk). Since the Berserk state is functionally equivalent to a separate personality, I would say that it would be a -40% modifier. I would add Super-ST+11 (Accessibility, Only while Berserk, -40%; SM+1, -10%; Super-Effort, +300%) [+385] and Injury Tolerance (/20 > /10,000; Accessibility, Only while Berserk, -40%) [+320]. If you get rid of CWA for DR and Physical Only for Injury Tolerance, that adds another +90 CP, increasing the overall cost by 795 CP.

What do you get with that? First, while Berserk, he is impossible to harm without M-class weapons. Second, while Berserk, his ST is an astounding 52/10,030, allowing him to deal 10,000d of damage with his punches, making him a M-class weapon.

[awesomenessofme1]

Hoo boy. Let's go through this one piece-by piece.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

He is really weak for the Hulk. The Hulk is supposed to be the strongest and toughest person on Earth.

He is the strongest and toughest person on Earth. I might give Juggernaut comparable durability and/or lifting strength to him, but that's it. Why are you judging the build in a vacuum?

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Of course, his strength and toughness increases with his anger, which is difficult to represent. By the way, Hulk can and has worn armor in the comics, so CWA would be an invalid modifier

The fact that he's done something in the comics is entirely irrelevant, which I have said multiple times throughout this thread. This version of the Hulk is not going to wear armor, so he gets the limitation. I probably should have added Nonprotective Clothing, but I figure that gets rolled into his clothing shtick.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

and he shrugs off energy attacks as easily as physical attacks, so Physical Only (-20%) is probably not a valid modifier for Damage Reduction.

And again, you're citing comics feats as though they're supposed to mean something. Besides, most environmental energy-based damage is going to be negated by his DR and there are no ultra-tech beam weapons to worry about.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

One way to represent the anger would be to give levels of Injury Tolerance and Super-ST the modifier of Accessibility (Only while Berserk). Since the Berserk state is functionally equivalent to a separate personality, I would say that it would be a -40% modifier. I would add Super-ST+11 (Accessibility, Only while Berserk, -40%; SM+1, -10%; Super-Effort, +300%) [+385] and Injury Tolerance (/20 > /10,000; Accessibility, Only while Berserk, -40%) [+320]. If you get rid of CWA for DR and Physical Only for Injury Tolerance, that adds another +90 CP, increasing the overall cost by 795 CP.

What do you get with that? First, while Berserk, he is impossible to harm without C-class weapons. Second, while Berserk, his ST is an astounding 52/10,030, allowing him to deal 10,000d of damage with his punches, making him a C-class weapon.

Did you even read the premise of this thread? Oh, wait, I know you did, because I remember you complaining about it. So the only logical interpretation of your post is that you're deliberately ignoring the entire conceit upon which this thread was built in order to post an unsolicited rebuild making a character ridiculously overpowered to the point that it no longer fits into the universe. To which I would kindly reply, maybe don't do that? If you think a character is too weak relative to other characters I've posted, or weaker than the description I wrote for them would suggest, feel free to bring that up. But please don't make posts saying that a character is weaker than the comics and say they should be drastically, ridiculously increased in power as a result. It shows a clear lack of respect for the setting I'm building, in my opinion.