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Old 02-12-2019, 07:46 PM   #1
David L Pulver
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Default Zombie Strength

Should there be any maximum limit on zombie strength?

If a zombie's ST is just what the wizard puts in, does that mean there is no difference between raising a little kid, a hulking barbarian, and a giant? All can be ST 1 or ST 50 depending on the wizard...

Or am I reading it wrong? I'd be tempted to say the zombie's ST can be as low as desired but shouldn't exceed the original ST when it was alive...
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: Zombie Strength

I would allow any ST on zombies and skeletons, though some of that ST might represent toughness rather than lifting strength.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: Zombie Strength

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Originally Posted by David L Pulver View Post
Should there be any maximum limit on zombie strength?

If a zombie's ST is just what the wizard puts in, does that mean there is no difference between raising a little kid, a hulking barbarian, and a giant? All can be ST 1 or ST 50 depending on the wizard...

Or am I reading it wrong? I'd be tempted to say the zombie's ST can be as low as desired but shouldn't exceed the original ST when it was alive...
It doesn't say, but without a limit, what we got were ST 26 zombies one-handing greatswords, but that seemed a little silly.

I would set a limit based on original ST when alive, as you suggest, or perhaps some factor of that, such as 1.5 x living ST.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:04 PM   #4
David L Pulver
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Default Re: Zombie Strength

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
It doesn't say, but without a limit, what we got were ST 26 zombies one-handing greatswords, but that seemed a little silly.

I would set a limit based on original ST when alive, as you suggest, or perhaps some factor of that, such as 1.5 x living ST.
I'd be more concerned with ST 25 zombie toddlers...

I have mixed feelings about ST 1 zombie 14-hex dragons, but I suppose that's "just barely alive" so it's okay.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: Zombie Strength

DT2 has a ST 30 Zombie so perhaps go to 2x living ST. While it could have had ST 20 while alive, but....
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: Zombie Strength

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DT2 has a ST 30 Zombie so perhaps go to 2x living ST. While it could have had ST 20 while alive, but....
2xST is the limit I put in my house rules, but this is mostly to prevent shortcuts around rotting by simply starting each Zombie with 1k ST.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:38 PM   #7
David L Pulver
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Default Re: Zombie Strength

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DT2 has a ST 30 Zombie so perhaps go to 2x living ST. While it could have had ST 20 while alive, but....
Yeah, allowing for zombies being VERY tough is reasonable.

I think it partly depends on how much you want wizards to have to seek out "good" material for purposes of ST.

At the moment, if a necromancer has the choice of animating a deceased ST 8, DX 14 dancing girl and a ST 18, DX 12 barbarian warrior, he'd go with the dancing girl. If he puts 20 ST into the zombie spell the barbarian ends up ST 15, DX 10 and the dancing girl ends up ST 15, DX 12 ... since you retain the original's DX-2. The best zombies are probably halflings, due to their high starting DX...
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: Zombie Strength

However strong a zombie is there is one simple spell that will drop it at a very small cost. (Unless it's a zombie 14 hex dragon, in which case it does take a bit more strength.)
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:11 AM   #9
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Default Re: Zombie Strength

It would help to specify some limiting details, such as:

* A zombie might respond to damage like it's original body's ST would indicate, so even a crazy-high-power human zombie could still at least be knocked down with 8 points of damage.

* The damage needed to cripple limbs with Aimed Shots could still be based on original living ST, so you could still cut the limbs off a crazy-high-ST zombie halfling as if it were still a halfling not a bear.

* Maybe any amount of ST can be put into the zombie for purposes of it resisting decay and dispelling via damage, but the max ST for purposes of doing things like wielding weapons, carrying things, and making ST rolls, could still be limited based on some factor of original ST, whether it's 1x, 2x, or 1.5x or whatever.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:51 AM   #10
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Default Re: Zombie Strength

Given that ST in TFT actually represents general constitution as well as pure physical ST, I think Zombies could be VERY tough -- after all, they don't feel pain (which limits the impact, to my mind, of any -DX adjustments for powerfully damaging hits -- maybe they only suffer the possibility of knock back instead), and they couldn't care less if you chop out their spleen. In short, the mere idea of damage is functionally meaningless to them -- if you don't kill them, they just keep on coming. I'd say 2xST is both a reasonable limit, and maybe even should be a standard result of the Zombie Spell.

With Skeletons, maybe only ST (they tend to "break" easier, since they lack all that dead flesh as padding), but if you give them 2xST, make sure you double the damage they take from things like axes, maces, hammers and morning stars! ;-)

(And maybe only half the damage from arrows, sling bullets, thrown knives, shotgun blasts, and the like...)
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