Alternate visualization of magical "exhaustion"

HeatDeath · 03-24-2019, 10:47 AM

The "cast from strength" mechanic of TFT magic is really interestingly different from most popular game magic systems, but it causes events that can be hard to visualize. Like, why should a ST 12 wizard, having cast 10 points of spells, be killed by a 3 point dagger wound that would have been a minor inconvenience had they not expended all that strength casting?

The traditional approach to dealing with this is just to handwave it away, or perhaps even house-rule that a fully exhausted wizard isn't dead until they've taken their ST in actual wounds, or something like that. This is unsatisfactory, as it damages the play balance in Wizard and ITL, contradicts the existing flavor fiction [the sample fight in Wizard not the least] and seeks to eliminate one of the real distinctive qualities of the TFT system.

But I realized, thinking about it, that you can visualize what's happening to a depleted wizard in another, better, indeed frankly bad*ss way, that is completely compatible with all rules [and most of the background] as written.

The answer is this. Casting spells channels a lot of energy through the body of the caster, to the extent that it causes strange, supernatural, but very real wounds in the wizard's body. 3rd-degree burns on the hands and feet. Gashes and deep cuts appear on the arms and torso of the caster. Facial and internal blood vessels burst. Ruptures and cuts and burns appear on the internal organs. The agonizing pain is real. The blood loss is real. A wizard who has cast themselves to within a few points of zero strength literally looks like a warrior who is heavily wounded and barely alive.

Eerily though, these wounds heal incredibly quickly. Per the rules for recovering "exhaustion", a wizard recovers 1 ST per 15 minutes of quiet rest. The gashes close. Apparent scar tissue sloughs off. internal wounds knit themselves back together. A wizard covered in magic wounds, appearing for all the world to be mortally wounded in half-a-dozen different ways, can go to sleep and wake up as fresh as a daisy. [The robes and bedsheets are another matter though. Magical artifacts embedded with the "Scour" spell would see plentiful use to keep robes and bedsheets usable].

In-universe, this certainly explains a few things: Why any wizard who can builds a Staff that can hold a non-trivial ST charge and uses it preferentially. Why wizards favor loose robes of gentle fabrics that cover most of the body. It undercuts slightly the idea that magic is a mundane thing that a significant fraction of the population can and do learn to use at low levels. While this remains theoretically possible, it takes a very specific kind of personality to be willing to bear the pain of channeling the power for even a low-cost spell. Though this may be a feature, rather than a bug.

hcobb · 03-24-2019, 10:51 AM

Heroes can also die from fatigue. Mining, berserk, etc.

HeatDeath · 03-24-2019, 11:03 AM

I don't think tunneling can kill you in the current rules. It's 4 ST per hour, but that's not a lump-sum cost paid every 60 minutes, it's continuous. You won't go to -3 ST, and therefore dead, if you tunnel for an hour starting at 1 ST. You'll tunnel for 15 minutes, hit 0, and pass out.

Now berzerking, otoh, is definitely called out that the ST cost at the end of the berzerk period can kill you. But that's easily visualizable as having a massive heart attack.

As plausible as it might seem that casting a big spell could shove your heart rate over 300 for minutes at a time and cause real damage, significant heart damage is one of the few forms of physical injury that is actually ruled out as a form of magical wounding, since magical "exhaustion" is specifically called out as being unable to kill you outright.

hcobb · 03-24-2019, 11:14 AM

What if you tunnel down to adjST 1 and then get whipped back to work?

FireHorse · 03-24-2019, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb

What if you tunnel down to adjST 1 and then get whipped back to work?

Well, that would certainly kill them, eventually. But even Slavers don't generally waste the lives of their Slaves like that — precisely because they do place value on their Slaves' lives, albeit only monetary.

HeatDeath · 03-24-2019, 11:51 AM

Realistically, anyone who dies in those circumstances has had their ST effectively drained from them over a period of weeks by chronic malnourishment and sleep deprivation. [I believe ITL actually does have rules for this, under prison sentences or the like.] In the real world, you can't actually kill a perfectly healthy person by putting them in hard labor for 24 hours and then mildly whipping them.

In game terms, I think I'd dodge the issue by GM-ruling that the whip in that circumstance doesn't actually cause a hit of damage. Not everything that inflicts pain, or even mild bleeding and scarring is going do damage-heading-toward-fatality in game terms.

Yes, I know a bullwhip is listed as a 1d-1 weapon. I think I'm just going to completely disagree with that. Maybe a magic energy bullwhip can do that, but not a real one. If you were to try to kill someone with just a bullwhip, even if they were tied to a mast, a la the old British Navy, you'd be there for hours, or more likely days. If you kept your victim fed and hydrated the eventual cause of death would be blood loss and shock, and that's assuming something really nasty, like the scourge we saw in Passion of the Christ. You just can't kill somebody in a small number of 5-second combat turns with a bullwhip. That's not a thing in real life.

FireHorse · 03-24-2019, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatDeath

… Yes, I know a bullwhip is listed as a 1d-1 weapon. … You just can't kill somebody in a small number of 5-second combat turns with a bullwhip. That's not a thing in real life.

I agree, although I'm quite certain you could cause enough sheer Pain to render them unconscious through Shock.

Celjabba · 03-24-2019, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatDeath

Yes, I know a bullwhip is listed as a 1d-1 weapon. ...If you were to try to kill someone with just a bullwhip, even if they were tied to a mast, a la the old British Navy, you'd be there for hours, or more likely days.

I disagree somewhat.
I agree that a bullwhip cannot, imho, relaibly deliver as much damage as a dagger, but unless you are carefull not to, I think you could kill an unprotected human with one in minutes, not hours/days !

"Tying to the mast" was a way to insure you would hit on the back, avoiding hitting the eyes or cutting open the throat or belly.

While you can (allegedly) kill small game with a single blow from a whip, I agree that it is impossible with an human target, barring the one-in-a-million neck snap or throat arteries being severed.

But blinding or crippling members is likely, and if you land a cutting blow on soft tissue, damage will be huge and potentially deadly.

03-24-2019, 10:47 AM	#1
HeatDeath Join Date: May 2012	Alternate visualization of magical "exhaustion" The "cast from strength" mechanic of TFT magic is really interestingly different from most popular game magic systems, but it causes events that can be hard to visualize. Like, why should a ST 12 wizard, having cast 10 points of spells, be killed by a 3 point dagger wound that would have been a minor inconvenience had they not expended all that strength casting? The traditional approach to dealing with this is just to handwave it away, or perhaps even house-rule that a fully exhausted wizard isn't dead until they've taken their ST in actual wounds, or something like that. This is unsatisfactory, as it damages the play balance in Wizard and ITL, contradicts the existing flavor fiction [the sample fight in Wizard not the least] and seeks to eliminate one of the real distinctive qualities of the TFT system. But I realized, thinking about it, that you can visualize what's happening to a depleted wizard in another, better, indeed frankly badss way, that is completely compatible with all rules [and most of the background] as written. The answer is this. Casting spells channels a lot of energy through the body of the caster, to the extent that it causes strange, supernatural, but very real wounds in the wizard's body. 3rd-degree burns on the hands and feet. Gashes and deep cuts appear on the arms and torso of the caster. Facial and internal blood vessels burst. Ruptures and cuts and burns appear on the internal organs. The agonizing pain is real. The blood loss is real. A wizard who has cast themselves to within a few points of zero strength literally looks like a warrior who is heavily wounded and barely alive. Eerily though, these wounds heal incredibly quickly. Per the rules for recovering "exhaustion", a wizard recovers 1 ST per 15 minutes of quiet rest. The gashes close. Apparent scar tissue sloughs off. internal wounds knit themselves back together. A wizard covered in magic wounds, appearing for all the world to be mortally wounded in half-a-dozen different ways, can go to sleep and wake up as fresh as a daisy. [The robes and bedsheets are another matter though. Magical artifacts embedded with the "Scour" spell would see plentiful use to keep robes and bedsheets usable]. In-universe, this certainly explains a few things: Why any wizard who can builds a Staff that can hold a non-trivial ST charge and uses it preferentially. Why wizards favor loose robes of gentle fabrics that cover most of the body. It undercuts slightly the idea that magic is a mundane thing that a significant fraction of the population can and do learn to use at low levels. While this remains theoretically possible, it takes a very specific kind of personality to be willing to bear the pain of channeling the power for even a low-cost spell. Though this may be a feature, rather than a bug. Last edited by HeatDeath; 03-24-2019 at 11:07 AM.*

03-24-2019, 10:51 AM	#2
hcobb Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Pacheco, California	Re: Alternate visualization of magical "exhaustion" Heroes can also die from fatigue. Mining, berserk, etc. __________________ -HJC

03-24-2019, 11:03 AM	#3
HeatDeath Join Date: May 2012	Re: Alternate visualization of magical "exhaustion" I don't think tunneling can kill you in the current rules. It's 4 ST per hour, but that's not a lump-sum cost paid every 60 minutes, it's continuous. You won't go to -3 ST, and therefore dead, if you tunnel for an hour starting at 1 ST. You'll tunnel for 15 minutes, hit 0, and pass out. Now berzerking, otoh, is definitely called out that the ST cost at the end of the berzerk period can kill you. But that's easily visualizable as having a massive heart attack. As plausible as it might seem that casting a big spell could shove your heart rate over 300 for minutes at a time and cause real damage, significant heart damage is one of the few forms of physical injury that is actually ruled out as a form of magical wounding, since magical "exhaustion" is specifically called out as being unable to kill you outright.

03-24-2019, 11:14 AM	#4
hcobb Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Pacheco, California	Re: Alternate visualization of magical "exhaustion" What if you tunnel down to adjST 1 and then get whipped back to work? __________________ -HJC

03-24-2019, 11:51 AM	#6
HeatDeath Join Date: May 2012	Re: Alternate visualization of magical "exhaustion" Realistically, anyone who dies in those circumstances has had their ST effectively drained from them over a period of weeks by chronic malnourishment and sleep deprivation. [I believe ITL actually does have rules for this, under prison sentences or the like.] In the real world, you can't actually kill a perfectly healthy person by putting them in hard labor for 24 hours and then mildly whipping them. In game terms, I think I'd dodge the issue by GM-ruling that the whip in that circumstance doesn't actually cause a hit of damage. Not everything that inflicts pain, or even mild bleeding and scarring is going do damage-heading-toward-fatality in game terms. Yes, I know a bullwhip is listed as a 1d-1 weapon. I think I'm just going to completely disagree with that. Maybe a magic energy bullwhip can do that, but not a real one. If you were to try to kill someone with just a bullwhip, even if they were tied to a mast, a la the old British Navy, you'd be there for hours, or more likely days. If you kept your victim fed and hydrated the eventual cause of death would be blood loss and shock, and that's assuming something really nasty, like the scourge we saw in Passion of the Christ. You just can't kill somebody in a small number of 5-second combat turns with a bullwhip. That's not a thing in real life.