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Old 08-17-2012, 10:56 AM   #71
Danukian
 
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
The confusion, at least for me, is coming from the notion that once dismissed (and presumably dispelled/banished/freed by Power Modifer countermeasures or insulators) the ally is lost for the entire adventure. I had thought that you could for example dismiss your ally while you climbed up a cliff face, and then summon him again at the top to go on your merry way.

What's the cost for an ally that I can dismiss to sneak through the dungeon and summon to guard me while I sleep? Because that's what I thought I was getting in the first place.
I think that is what Figleaf23, munin, and RPK are talking about as well - I know it's what I thought. If the durationis only 1 minute for a Demonologists 29 point ally, why wouldn't he just get a "Cultist: available constantly" for 4 points with the trait Homegrown Demonologist - he can summon a demon for an hour at a time, as many times wants as long as he has ER, AND do all the thing an ally is supposed to do. Sure you have to feed him and buy his bed roll, but that's not a 25pt disadvantage!
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Last edited by Danukian; 08-17-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:14 AM   #72
cbower
 
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

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Originally Posted by Danukian View Post
I think that is what Figleaf23, munin, and RPK are talking about as well - I know it's what I thought. If the durationis only 1 minute for a Demonologists 29 point ally, why wouldn't he just get a "Cultist: available constantly" for 4 points with the trait Homegrown Demonologist - he can summon a demon for an hour at a time, as many times wants as long as he has ER, AND do all the thing an ally is supposed to do. Sure you have to feed him and buy his bed roll, but that's not a 25pt disadvantage!
Well, an Ally that costs points isn't going to try to tear your throat out if you fail to control it. Summon spells also take five minutes to cast, whereas an Ally Summoning roll takes one turn's Concentration.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:33 AM   #73
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

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Well, an Ally that costs points isn't going to try to tear your throat out if you fail to control it. Summon spells also take five minutes to cast, whereas an Ally Summoning roll takes one turn's Concentration.
Right: For 1 point you can learn the Spell:
  • Summon Demon, spend 5 minutes and 25 fatigue (That's what ER and Powerstones are for) and get a 250pt demon for an hour;
  • Summon Elemental, spend 30 seconds and 25 fatigue for a 250pt elemental for an hour, but it will take up to 2d minutes to show;
  • Planar Summons, spend 5 minutes and 25 fatigue and get a 250pt Planar for an hour;

For 800 ER and a few bucks, make a staff of summoning to cut down the time.

For 21 Points, you can get a the same unwilling demon for a minute (29 for a willing one). For 29 points you can get a the same planar for a minute. 29 points would get you the same elemental for a minute - albeit instantly.
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Last edited by Danukian; 08-17-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:33 AM   #74
Figleaf23
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

By the way, nowhere in the main text of the Ally advantage does it say that the Frequency of Appearance check needs to occur at the start of the adventure.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:40 AM   #75
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

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Originally Posted by Figleaf23 View Post
By the way, nowhere in the main text of the Ally advantage does it say that the Frequency of Appearance check needs to occur at the start of the adventure.
See the text box for Frequency of Appearance on B36
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAW B36
Each friend or foe has a frequency of appearance, and will
figure into a given adventure only if the GM rolls less than or equal to that
number on 3d at the start of the adventure
. How the NPC interacts with
you if the roll succeeds depends on the nature of the relationship.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:45 PM   #76
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

Summon Demon and Planar Summons: You have to roll to control them, and that's not guaranteed. 25 energy can be a bit much to gamble away. I'll grant that if you're using the spell often I expect you to be good at controlling whatever comes up.

Summon Elemental:the Elemental's not under your control without Control Elemental.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danukian View Post
For 800 ER and a few bucks, make a staff of summoning to cut down the time.
Only the Elemental version, though, and it's not under your control.

Now, the way I run these may be different than other GMs, but I don't allow the PC to exactly determine the stats of a Summoned Demon, so there's always the chance I'll throw one at you with Will-20 and Magic Resistance 10. I allow more input with a purchased Ally.
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:45 PM   #77
thom
 
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

Whew!

I sincerely apologize for causing all the controversy! And thanks, Kromm for the official answer (which I intend to implement pronto). I can't see this forum at work so I didn't know all this discussion was ongoing.

As I said on the other thread:

GURPS is so wonderfully precise and complete on 90%+ of all the situations I'll ever encounter, which is why this particular issue threw me.

As a bit of background, I require any (normal) Allies to be taken at the "constantly available (x4) price. So that's why the whole summoning "until dismissed" is even an issue. We're ex-D&Ders who finally saw the light, but some things from that system still make sense...

So thanks again everyone for all the clarifications. This is yet another reason I'm glad I made the jump to GURPS!

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Old 08-17-2012, 06:59 PM   #78
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

So how much to make Ally work the way I think it does? Enough Extended Duration on the spell-like kind to make it last a week or so?

How much to make the classic version resummonable daily?
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:03 PM   #79
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

Two things of note;

Extended Duration 150% for willy nilly summoning (assuming it is a spell or some such, so something could dispel it, otherwise use 300%); and

Requires Attribute Roll with Constantly Available if you don't want that cooldown to be a problem (but still want the roll). You can buy frex "10" as a stat (houserule, but even Kromm said it acceptable, if not cheap enough)
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:37 AM   #80
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

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Originally Posted by Danukian View Post
See the text box for Frequency of Appearance on B36
Ah, thanks. I miss stuff in those boxes all the time.

That seems to make it a condition the GM sets at the beginning of the adventure, rather than something the player must decide. I wonder why it's important for it to occur at the beginning.
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