Fifth Wave NCOs

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

I doubt it very much, but DAT and Prince Charon seem to assume that fifth wave militaries will need biosophont officers and some sort of NCOs to train them.

I would suspect that training and battlefield leadership will diverge significantly.

Wouldn't be surprised if SAIs didn't spend the majority of their time training in VR ... possibly to the point where they find it hard to distinguish between training and real engagements. The need for seperate instructors, as opposed to mainframe AIs might well be limited.

Meanwhile, when actually engaged, I suspect the need for local leadership and control will be greatly reduced when every individual is fully connected to the BatCom system and isn't prone to combat paralysis or any of the other psychological factors that mean human infantry need locally motivating.

(post)human leadership could well be on a point and click basis - the officer sits at a BatCom station somewhere, looking at an AI mediated picture composed of the datafeeds from all of his units: this combined picture is mirrored back to those units on the ground. He points, drags and clicks as appropriate and the orders go out.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Wouldn't be surprised if SAIs didn't spend the majority of their time training in VR ...

I would be surprised if SAIs were used to run basic infantry grunt-bots. That'll be a job fpr NAIs.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I would be surprised if SAIs were used to run basic infantry grunt-bots. That'll be a job fpr NAIs.

True (which is part of why there were questions about where the NCOs come from, and whether they're needed). For that matter, how many biological officers are needed? If you need biological commissioned officers, you need experienced minds to advise them. If you don't, who are the SAIs taking orders from?

Of course, this is going to vary a lot from nation-state to nation-state, as some trust SAIs more than others do, and some cannot afford as many SAIs due to other areas that money must be spent on.

[RogerBW]

"You look like you're trying to continue diplomacy by other means. Would you like some help with that?"

[Phil Masters]

I'm reminded of the (satirical) Bob Shaw novel in which future armies have brain control implants in their soldiers, so NCOs are no longer required for most of their traditional functions. The only sergeant who appears (briefly) in the story is an emotionally fragile moron who is employed to perform idiot-level admin tasks.

This also means that the satirically awful commissioned officers can formulate tactics like "Order the men to advance directly on the enemy across open ground, to intimidate the foe with our utter fearlessness"...

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

I'm reminded of the (satirical) Bob Shaw novel in which future armies have brain control implants in their soldiers, so NCOs are no longer required for most of their traditional functions. The only sergeant who appears (briefly) in the story is an emotionally fragile moron who is employed to perform idiot-level admin tasks.

This also means that the satirically awful commissioned officers can formulate tactics like "Order the men to advance directly on the enemy across open ground, to intimidate the foe with our utter fearlessness"...

Who goes Here - didn't think anyone else remembered that book. Also had a probably un-THS detail that the Legion is armed with fancy energy weapons that are amazing on a firing range but inferior to lower tech weapons on the battle field.

A more serious point is that NCOs serve a specific purpose and the way they function in Anglo-American armies isn't universal even among real world armies. NCOs as the backbone of the army is not an absolute rule. So don't assume a future army would need them.

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by Infornific

A more serious point is that NCOs serve a specific purpose and the way they function in Anglo-American armies isn't universal even among real world armies. NCOs as the backbone of the army is not an absolute rule. So don't assume a future army would need them.

I read the in the Soviet Army sergeants were just recruits with a special 6 month course, and served a total of two years like the other enlisted. So a lot of the backbone of the army stuff ended up on the guys stuck as junior officers (there was no up or out policy, you could spend 20 years as lieutenant).