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Old 06-03-2009, 12:16 AM   #21
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Why does the future only begin at TL9?

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I'd have no problem with UT not listing any stats for pre-TL9 gear. That's not what the book is there to do. But listing things that obviously predate TL9 as being TL9 technology is at best wasting a useful digit of information.
Not as far as I'm concerned. I don't do non-fantastic modern gaming, so I really don't want to have to buy the hi tech book to get stuff I'd need for my space game.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:40 AM   #22
Johnny Angel
 
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Default Re: Why does the future only begin at TL9?

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Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
Actually, assuming wikipedia isn't lying to us, we can and have, in the 10s of kilowatts, so long as it is in a straight line without an obstruction that the waves will interact with in the way.
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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
When you talk about signals, you're talking about information; there is just enough energy to make sure that the information gets through. When you talk about beamed power, you're talking about large quantities of energy being sent for the sake of the energy. It's like the difference between an oldstyle phone line, which is at low voltage and carries audio frequency signals, and an old style power line, which it at substantially higher voltage and carries nothing but a sixty cycle hum. We use microwaves to carry information all the time, but large-scale use of microwaves to carry power has not been developed. Those satellites don't have their power beamed up to them from the ground, for example.

If you actually look at the technical definitions of the concepts that are being referred to, a lot of those things in Ultra-Tech will make more sense.

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Without breaking the NDA that I have with the military, I'll just say that I've seen some things which might make you think differently.
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:27 AM   #23
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Default Re: Why does the future only begin at TL9?

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Originally Posted by Johnny Angel View Post
Without breaking the NDA that I have with the military, I'll just say that I've seen some things which might make you think differently.
Beamed power, unless reeeally far beyond the drawing board concepts in the civilian sphere, seem rather unsuited for military purposes. Unless it's used for no-landing recharging of UAVs or similar.

We know about the Microwave Area Denial rigs ;-)
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:34 AM   #24
chris1982
 
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Default Re: Why does the future only begin at TL9?

Items that exist now but come to mass production in TL 9 are essentially TL 9.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:52 AM   #25
whthat
 
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Default Re: Why does the future only begin at TL9?

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Originally Posted by walkir View Post
And if you're at the Interface of TL 8/9... you're lost. It would have been nice to at least include a paragraph about making stuff from a lower TL at purpose. But the books aren't integrated that good, anyway.
Including TL8- stuff in UT would weaken the "Book of TL9+-items"-concept considerably, but making sure the books fit together neatlessly would have been good.
But then where do you draw the line? The Photocopier (TL 7) hasn't had a replacement so does it get included in UT?

You have to a hard line somewhere. Yes the line may make games straddling it hard but it needs to be somewhere and the Industrial Revolution and the Future are as good of lines as any.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:38 AM   #26
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Default Re: Why does the future only begin at TL9?

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Originally Posted by mearrin69 View Post
Never seen it in action personally BUT it's been a documented phenomenon since WWII I believe.

I was in MI in the late-80s and early 90s and all of our equipment was TEMPEST-shielded. I was told that the building was as well, but I obviously can't verify that. I'm pretty sure the U.S. government wouldn't spend billions on something that's entirely unnecessary...oh, wait...well, maybe they would but I don't think that's the case here.
M
The new GCHQ building in the UK has had some pretty fancy-ass (and classified) shielding built into it as well ... but strangely, no defenses against dragons or minotaurs, so I think we can assume that TEMPEST ... or something very like it is non-mythological enough that people who know a thing or two about ELINT find it worrisome.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:44 AM   #27
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Default Re: Why does the future only begin at TL9?

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Originally Posted by whthat View Post
But then where do you draw the line? The Photocopier (TL 7) hasn't had a replacement so does it get included in UT?

You have to a hard line somewhere. Yes the line may make games straddling it hard but it needs to be somewhere and the Industrial Revolution and the Future are as good of lines as any.
The photocopier has come (at least) as far from it's TL7 origins as those origins were from a TL6 spirit duplicator - the modern digital TL8 scanner/copier/laser printer/coffee machine is a very different beast indeed.

And the industrial revolution is probably a good watershed, but 'the future'? That's shooting at a moving target (harder actually) - just go back and read RPG books from the early nineties and laugh at the super classified cutting edge laptops the PCs have access to in the 2050s ... with less power than your PDA.
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Old 06-03-2009, 07:46 AM   #28
whthat
 
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Default Re: Why does the future only begin at TL9?

I don't think the photocopier has really changed all that much it has just gotten smaller and combined with other tech. After all we still have the big office style. Honestly it was the 1st thing I could find in High Tech that made a lick of sense.

You are probably right about The Future being a bad line. Right now I'm typing this on a DSi which would nearly unthinkable 5 years ago. I think part of the issue is that ppl are want a hard solid line as to where TL 8 becomes 9, 9 becomes 10 etc. The only things we have to go off of for these though is Sci Fi and science research. Sci Fi is changing constantly and could be completely off, so it a tose up but the only thing we have for TL 10+. Research is hard to figure out if it should be 8 or 9, so if isn't prefect.

End of the day we have to use your brains and figure out what works for your campaign. If you are setting it any time in the past you have a specific set to work with but any time in the future, even just a yaer or two, could be as wild as you wish.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:06 AM   #29
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Default Re: Why does the future only begin at TL9?

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Originally Posted by whthat View Post
But then where do you draw the line? The Photocopier (TL 7) hasn't had a replacement so does it get included in UT?
It's been replaced by workstation terminal components.

Quote:
You have to a hard line somewhere. Yes the line may make games straddling it hard but it needs to be somewhere and the Industrial Revolution and the Future are as good of lines as any.
There aren't lines, there are walls. Adding a little ladder would have been helpful.
I'm not talking about including every single bit mentioned in LT/HT in UT. But why is the change from batteries to power cells not even worth a single paragraph? Basic technologies are covered in every book of the series it seems, but even those aren't connected that good.

Stuff like the clothing weight table, G-Suits or load bearing equipment from HT would have been nice to have (been continued) in UT, but this power cell thing is a real bummer.
Don't get me wrong, the books are great, but I hope Gurps 5 will connect them better in 202x... ;)
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:23 AM   #30
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Default Re: Why does the future only begin at TL9?

I'm still in a passive search regarding what accessories from HT could make UT stuff much more impressive. Or vice versa, like ETK put onto the bigger HT guns - I wonder if it could be advantageous.
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