Why does the future only begin at TL9?

[doctorevilbrain]

I don't understand why there aren't some things that are TL8 in Ultra Tech. I don't understand why some things have the tech levels they do. The Pnumohypospray (A.K.A. Star Trek's Hypospray) is TL9. In real life it's TL7. Beamed Power is TL 10. Why? TV stations regularly beam their signals up to a satellite with Microwaves, and then down to TV station. What's so futuristic about that? Is it because it uses more power? The Glowstick is TL9. In real life, they've been around since the 70's. They're also listed in High Tech as Chemsticks as TL7. What's the difference? Wirefences are listed as TL 9-11. What's so futuristic about them? The Laser Mike is listed @ TL9. They're also listed as TL7 in High Tech. Sprays are listed @ TL9. What's so futuristic about spray. Plasma Weapons are Superscience. Why? Fire is Plasma. Flamethrowers shoot fire. What is so futuristic about shooting Plasma? Is it because of the Electromagnetic fields?

[doctorevilbrain]

Microwave Disruptors are "refinements of single shot explosively pumped high power Microwave Pulse weapons of TL8" Huh? What does that mean? They're not listed in High Tech. Computer Monitoring Gear using TEMPEST is a MYTH! Why isn't it listed as Superscience? Mr. Pulver, I can't wait to hear your reply.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by doctorevilbrain

Beamed Power is TL 10. Why? TV stations regularly beam their signals up to a satellite with Microwaves, and then down to TV station. What's so futuristic about that? Is it because it uses more power?

When you talk about signals, you're talking about information; there is just enough energy to make sure that the information gets through. When you talk about beamed power, you're talking about large quantities of energy being sent for the sake of the energy. It's like the difference between an oldstyle phone line, which is at low voltage and carries audio frequency signals, and an old style power line, which it at substantially higher voltage and carries nothing but a sixty cycle hum. We use microwaves to carry information all the time, but large-scale use of microwaves to carry power has not been developed. Those satellites don't have their power beamed up to them from the ground, for example.

If you actually look at the technical definitions of the concepts that are being referred to, a lot of those things in Ultra-Tech will make more sense.

Bill Stoddard

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by doctorevilbrain

I don't understand why there aren't some things that are TL8 in Ultra Tech. I don't understand why some things have the tech levels they do. The Pnumohypospray (A.K.A. Star Trek's Hypospray) is TL9. In real life it's TL7.

TL 8 stuff doesn't appear in 4e UT because 4e UT is specifically intended to cover TL 9+. They list TL 9 handguns, too, and those have been around for a while, but the TL 9 version is better.

Originally Posted by doctorevilbrain

Beamed Power is TL 10. Why? TV stations regularly beam their signals up to a satellite with Microwaves, and then down to TV station. What's so futuristic about that? Is it because it uses more power?

Because we can't beam power like we beam TV signals yet and show no sign of doing it soon.

Originally Posted by doctorevilbrain

Plasma Weapons are Superscience. Why? Fire is Plasma. Flamethrowers shoot fire. What is so futuristic about shooting Plasma? Is it because of the Electromagnetic fields?

Fire != Plasma. Fire is a chemical reaction involving some kind of solid, liquid, or gas as fuel. Flamethrowers ignite and project that fuel and the fire goes with it. Plasma is superheated gas, which means that its molecules are even less compressed and orderly than those of regular air. A realistic weapon that projected it would have an effective range worse than an air gun, slightly beyond the end of the barrel, as the plasma blew out in all directions as soon as it wasn't contained. UT field-jacketing is essential for an effective ranged plasma weapon.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by doctorevilbrain

Computer Monitoring Gear using TEMPEST is a MYTH!

Really? Could have fooled me... and I'm in the industry.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

Because we can't beam power like we beam TV signals yet and show no sign of doing it soon.

Actually, assuming wikipedia isn't lying to us, we can and have, in the 10s of kilowatts, so long as it is in a straight line without an obstruction that the waves will interact with in the way.

[gmillerd]

I think what is missing is the 'ultra' factor of the UT suppliments versus a mundane websters dictionary comparison of the words in the names of the items and technologies in suppliments. UT deals with this clearly in the preface/introduction of the book as I think any of the SJG verbage on explaining TL's and comparing them does a good job as well.

Also I think UT its a significantly more than 'better' in the OP's comparison. The 'plasma weapons' comparison is making a comparsion that 'plasma weapons' as the OP defines them pre-date gunpowered weapons for what its worth.

The SJG discussions of 'TL' and how the technologies are stamped as 'TL#' are not when the technology was postulated or understood, but rather when it was proven as viable in mass production or could be assured to be so. Future 'bettering' of the TL occurs when further breakthroughs intrisicly, the supporting or underlying technolgies increase, etc.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by doctorevilbrain

I don't understand why there aren't some things that are TL8 in Ultra Tech.

Because Ultra-Tech describes what things are like (both descriptively and with game stats) at TL9+.

If something was invented prior to TL9, it will be TL9 in UT.

Beamed Power is TL 10. Why? TV stations regularly beam their signals up to a satellite with Microwaves, and then down to TV station. What's so futuristic about that? Is it because it uses more power?

If the TV station ran off the satellite signal, rather than using it as a data signal, that would be beamed power. Not the same thing at all.

[mearrin69]

Originally Posted by robkelk

Really? Could have fooled me... and I'm in the industry.

Yeah. What he said.

@OP: I think the tech books are pretty explicit that just because something is mentioned at a specific tech level doesn't mean that TL was its first introduction - it simply gives the details of the item at that level...or perhaps notes the first real wide-spread usage of a technology that has been around in the experimental/prototype stage.

M

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by cmdicely

Because Ultra-Tech describes what things are like (both descriptively and with game stats) at TL9+.

If something was invented prior to TL9, it will be TL9 in UT.

That does seem like one of their worse ideas. High tech provides TLs for some items from TL0-4, which is a lot more helpful and takes no more space than than 'TL9, and we won't bother to mention that it's also TL8.'