04-23-2008, 08:42 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Cinematic Martial Artist too expensive?
Creating a cinematic martial artist requires a lot of points. The templates created for such characters seem to be around 250 points. For 150 points you can build a more realistic martial artist, but these are far weaker than the mage counter parts. At 250 points the cinematic martial artists don't seem to me to stack up well against 250 point wizards.
Maybe I'm missing something, but although Martial Arts provided lots of options, Trained By a Master, still doesn't seem like it's worth the points, especially when compared against Magery. Yes, I know when there's no mana magery becomes worthless, but in most fantasy campaigns that won't happen all that often.
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James (aka griffin) Stuff I'd like to see in Pyramid Griffin's Claw - fantasy Special Ops team |
04-23-2008, 08:47 AM | #2 |
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Re: Cinematic Martial Artist too expensive?
IMHO, the only way to make non-mage characters remotely competitive is to load them with high levels of Magic Resistance and Mana Damper.
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04-23-2008, 08:52 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Cinematic Martial Artist too expensive?
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1) Most of a martial artist's abilities, cinematic or not, are likely to be directly applicable in combat. There's likely to be a lot of kicking the heck out of the mage before a spell can really go off. The martial artist's main weakness is ranged combat, and some may not even be weak in that respect, taking Throwing Art or Zen Archery and such. 2) Defending against mages, don't forget that the cinematic martial artist will tend to have relatively high HT and Will both; a lot of Regular spells will be easily resisted, especially at ranges greater than a few yards. Missile spells can be dodged. So a fair number of spells may end up not working against the martial artist. Defending against martial artists, the mage's options mostly come down to Blocking spells and Missile Shield or Reverse Missiles against missile weapons. 3) In terms of damage potential, the use of Power Blow (especially at high enough levels to be able to do one each turn) can be a pretty close match to what most mages can do with missile spells (at least without additional turns of concentration), and Pressure Points can do a pretty good job of simulating the effects of many offensive Body Control spells. The spells also have a greater FP cost. Not that 250-point mages that're optimized for combat can't be scary, because they can. |
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04-23-2008, 09:41 AM | #4 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Cinematic Martial Artist too expensive?
I think that a cinematic martial artist is priced just about right. The trouble is that wizards are rather cheap for what they can do.
However, there are catches. Wizards always need that minimum 1 second to cast (4e got rid of instant spells), generally pay FP, and are ineffective when there's no mana. A cinematic martial artist can do most of what he does in 0 time and for 0 FP, unless he insists on every blow being a Power Blow, and he can do so anywhere. In head-to-head combat, it's possible that a wizard with the advantage of distance could prevail, but if he's within grappling range . . . not so much. After then 11th fight of the day without much of a rest, the martial artist is still fighting, while the wizard is down to his last FP and reduced to casting Itch spells or something. And in no mana, the wizard is about as useful in a fight as a college professor shouting mathematical theorems at the enemy. What it amounts to is "What do you want to be good at?" Fighting? Endurance? Flashy, save-the-day moments? Functioning anywhere? And it's also important to question the entire concept of going head to head. A martial artist with good levels of Body Control and Mental Strength can resist just about anything. If he has Enhanced Dodge or Parry Missile Weapons, he can also avoid unresisted Missile spells. And if he uses Invisibility Art, he might not even be a target. Finally, don't overlook all the special rules in Martial Arts that only apply to those with TbaM or WM. If the GM is concerned about martial artist vs. wizard balance, he can just let those with TbaM or WM make 3+ Rapid Strikes, use chambara defenses, and be the only ones allowed to use extra effort in combat. Believe me when I say that those things right there will make TbaM worth the points.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
04-23-2008, 10:01 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Re: Cinematic Martial Artist too expensive?
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Personally, I think they should not have made the resistance roll on spells that aren't normally resisted based on MR+HT. I think just having them based on MR (as someone pointed out on another thread) would have been reasonable.
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James (aka griffin) Stuff I'd like to see in Pyramid Griffin's Claw - fantasy Special Ops team |
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04-23-2008, 10:08 AM | #6 | ||
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Re: Cinematic Martial Artist too expensive?
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FWIW, I run a fantasy campaign where the party's primary warrior has MR. The only ramification it has is for alchemical healing potions, really. Healing is mostly done via spirit powers and occasionally divine ones, and medicines exist that aren't magical, but chi-based, cosmic, or weird science.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
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04-23-2008, 10:10 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: Cinematic Martial Artist too expensive?
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In an eastern themed game, Herb Lore and Esoteric Healing are chi-based effects, not magical, and I believe healing-based miracles would be in theme for pseudo-Buddhist saints. Spirits and gods also are a very in-genre source of miraculous effects in a "Mysterious East" fantasy game. In a standard DF game, Magic Resistance won't interfere with Clerical and Holy Warrior healing powers, although it will zap the spells. In other types of fantasy games, it may not (I wouldn't rule that way in a more fully fleshed out game, for instance).
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04-23-2008, 10:14 AM | #8 |
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Re: Cinematic Martial Artist too expensive?
In DF, things were set up specifically so that clerics and holy warriors could acquire a lay-on-hands ability that would work on everyone equally, regardless of MR, SM, and other considerations. For that matter, martial artists can buy Regeneration there. Whether or not you play DF, the lesson is that once you go beyond one flavor of magic, there's a certain obligation to consider lots of different ways of doing the same thing. If Magery-based magic is favored, then yes, wizards will be too powerful.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
04-23-2008, 10:57 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: Cinematic Martial Artist too expensive?
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Zounds indeed!
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04-23-2008, 11:07 AM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Re: Cinematic Martial Artist too expensive?
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James (aka griffin) Stuff I'd like to see in Pyramid Griffin's Claw - fantasy Special Ops team |
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