Killing PCs

[Laroc]

I never plan a fatality

[Purple Snit]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

A lot of players have the mindset that "anything with stats is just a source of XP for me to kill."

As an example: In D&D 3.5, their Planescape book gave the Lady of Pain (basically a plot device for keeping the gods out of the central city, Sigil) stats. At a convention, a table of power gamers made epic-level characters designed to defeat and destroy her. They succeeded because the GM was going "by RAW", which meant going by her stats.

The PCs basically decided to go up and defeat "God", and won because they gave God stats.

I've met dozens of players that are "if it has stats, I know how to counter those stats and kill it." Half of them are able to back that up. This is why for the high-level plot device characters (like Death!) I don't give them stats. Someone somewhere will decide "removing Death from the world/universe will be a good thing", and if Death has stats they will try and half the time succeed! If Death doesn't have stats, then the GM is free to say "okay, you killed a physical manifestation, but Death still lives" when the PCs try the stunt.

The response to this, really, is "the GM is in charge of the campaign, and not the players." So, no, just because something is there, stats or not, that doesn't mean that it's a legitimate target. The GM also shouldn't show/tell the players which things get sheets and which ones don't, and isn't obliged to use stats as written in a published supplement. And frankly, if my players created a group of PCs just to kill some powerful entity, I'd tell them they wasted their time, because I'm not running that type of game. You aren't writing up NPCs for use as targets; you are creating them to add elements to your story. And the GM is ALWAYS free to say "you didn't kill Death", regardless ofnumbers on a page, if the PCs try something dumb or contrary to the spirit of your game..

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by Bengt

That blurs the line of notes and stats IMO. :)

---

Another problem that I see with detailed stats for big guys (like a Duke of Hell) is that it's easy, as a lowly human, to forget something. And if you add stats on the fly anyway, what was the point of making detailed stats to begin with?

In several of John's game designs, the stats are added as part of the process of play. The GM introduces some elements, and the players can add others as part of their actions. These include somethings other game designs would treat as immutable - like the underlying motivations.

In one Blood & Honor campaign, my 50' Giant went from being the threat I intended him to be to being an allied jolly green giant in one set of rolls.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

So, I was wondering, when do you kill PCs? Is it just random luck, consequences for in game actions, or planned fatalities?

A mixture, I think, although I try by all means that they survive unless they want the opposite, but sometimes it is difficult ... I remember one that was specifically launched against a dozen mutant wolves, about four hundred kilograms each one, as a bait so that his companions could cross the lobby ... Obviously he was condemned to die from the minute the idea was proposed.

It is not that the others were very lucky either, given that they came up with the brilliant idea of ​​investigating an accident-ridden scientific installation with the intention of "saving the world" instead of going back to base to report what happened.

[Black Leviathan]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

So, I was wondering, when do you kill PCs? Is it just random luck, consequences for in game actions, or planned fatalities?

It's Dice, very damned time. They take on the big bad, fast-draw and shoot him, with a 3, Critical hit is a major wound no matter what. He's stunned and can't roll to snap out of it until they kill him. They fail to calm down a crazy street person with a butter knife, he attacks, with a three, tripple damage through DR, character is unconscious and bleeding and arriving paramedics can't revive them.

It's also the D&D poisoning. Characters figure they have full hit points and the last of the gang of kidnappers is pinned down with a rifle. Time to walk out of cover and talk **** trying to intimidate him into giving up, failed dodge, no luck for 12 more minutes, shot through the chest a days ride from anyone who knows first aid.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

So, I was wondering, when do you kill PCs? Is it just random luck, consequences for in game actions, or planned fatalities?

When it's story appropriate, and the dice agree to that.

[johndallman]

Posting a reply to see if I can get round the message-count bug.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Posting a reply to see if I can get round the message-count bug.

Garbage posting (which includes no-content posts like the above) is against the rules. Don't do it.

[lachimba]

Last session I had a PC roll two consecutive critical failures on death checks (after using luck to avoid the first one).

He died, the player advised the group not to spend the $15000 to raise dead and just rolled a new one.