10-07-2013, 12:05 AM | #31 | ||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Disabling a car's engine
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This has nothing to do with living density/strength vs. unliving density/strength, but of unliving vitals vs. unliving non-vitals. Quote:
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OK granted, maybe you could answer the question though. Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-07-2013 at 12:23 AM. |
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10-07-2013, 12:10 AM | #32 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Disabling a car's engine
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A sliding scale that seems to go in the wrong direction. |
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10-07-2013, 12:41 AM | #33 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Disabling a car's engine
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Not all zombies lack vitals. And the point is to illustrate that system is distinct from substance, remember?
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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10-07-2013, 06:42 AM | #34 | |||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Disabling a car's engine
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I.e the reality of what we're talking about here (rounds of various sizes against engine blocks) rather invalidates abstract this is what unliving means arguments. Maybe not but most zombie tend vitals tend to be about physically separating the brain stem, not many zombies go down with heart shots. basically stopping zombies and stopping sedans is apples and oranges. Quote:
If you want to go with zombies fine. They are unliving because of the outside force that reanimates them if they didn't have this they would be dead. This is the system But they are still subject to the limitations of their substance as they can rot for example. The car for example can have those wings that can be shot full of holes with no degradation of performance, because of the physical properties of the unliving material they are made of. They have an effect on each other. In fact I'd argue that unliving isn't some entirely separate thing from living due to some absolute fundamental difference in either system or substance. Rather its the recognition that the thing in question while sharing some of the aspects of living target doesn't share others. Which is why you can still get no vitals etc. Homogeneous is obviously further removed again from living sharing even less in the way of living aspects, etc. etc nor have you answered the question why are p- bullets 15x more effective when hitting teh engine block in comparison to the bodywork, but P++ are only 3x as effective. In fact forget the abstract substance vs. effect argument (because it's just as true for P++ and P- anyway its just the results are less odd) and answer that last question because you've avoided it so far. Ultimately both versions are an abstraction of a complex situation, it's just the one where you combine unliving multipliers with the x3 multiplier still rewards going for the vital, and keeps the point that shooting vehicles even in the engine block is a job best suited for big guns with big bullets, for the one that has small calibre SMG's and PDW's as effective car killers. Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-07-2013 at 09:49 AM. |
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10-07-2013, 09:53 AM | #35 | |||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Disabling a car's engine
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Nope.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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10-07-2013, 10:12 AM | #36 |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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Re: Disabling a car's engine
An engine block is the Vitals hit location of a car, but it also has Vitals DR to protect it from damage. Those Pi- rounds are going to have an issue getting past said DR.
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10-07-2013, 10:19 AM | #37 |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
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Re: Disabling a car's engine
Question: What actually happens if you shoot a sedan's engine block with a pistol? Or with a rifle, like in the OP?
Answer: With a pistol, not much. It won't even penetrate the block; completely stopped by DR unless it's a ridiculously big round, and even then it won't penetrate the cylinder (and thus won't probably disable the vehicle). With a shotgun, similar to a big pistol round it won't penetrate the cylinder and thus probably won't disable the vehicle. With a 5.56mm rifle, it still won't penetrate the cylinder. Even with a .30-06, it won't unless you're using AP ammo. So: Any rules that say the vehicle is instantly disabled (reduced to 0 HP or less) by a hit from a small rifle is probably right out. The engine block should probably have more DR than the car overall, thus making it match reality. |
10-07-2013, 10:35 AM | #38 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Disabling a car's engine
Well, that was a dispute about whether the engine block is actually the vitals location. A severed fuel line will instantly disable a vehicle, as will a hit to the distributor, though it's unlikely you can hit either one at a mere -3.
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10-07-2013, 10:37 AM | #39 |
Join Date: May 2009
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Re: Disabling a car's engine
...but the model for damage to the Vitals location does not behave in the same way as damage to the car's engine location. So why must one be designed to model the other?
Would it not be better to model the engine as the generic/default -0 ot hit target? It is chose because it makes up the majority of the target that is required to be disabled before the target in entirety is disabled. Then the sub-locations of the engine can take the roll of the Vitals. If the engine is the Vitals of the car then 15x as many shots required to disable the car by shooting the engine are fired through the passenger compartment then it should be equally disabled.
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Maxwell Kensington "Snotkins" Von Smacksalot III |
10-07-2013, 06:44 PM | #40 | |
Icelandic - Approach With Caution
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
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Re: Disabling a car's engine
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Tags |
firearms, high tech, vehicles, vitals |
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