Mind control - Conditioning

[Nyarli]

1)To Condition someone "your victim must be under your control,
cooperative, and conscious". How much should cost Conditioning, that works on the uncooperative victim?
2)How price enhancement that would waive need in Concentration maneuver to mantain mind control. Would one levcel of reduced time suffice? What about removing need in Concentrate maneuver to establish mind control?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Nyarli

1)To Condition someone "your victim must be under your control,
cooperative, and conscious". How much should cost Conditioning, that works on the uncooperative victim?
2)How price enhancement that would waive need in Concentration maneuver to mantain mind control. Would one levcel of reduced time suffice? What about removing need in Concentrate maneuver to establish mind control?

The most accepted way to handle the concentrate part of your question is with compartmentalized mind. To establish without control probably Cosmic 300% and as a GM I would be very leery of it. Note that the control could be less then obvious though.

[Walrus]

I'd suggest just +50% atop of usual Conditioning as buying additional Mind Control (Conditioning only -50%). I'd not allow it as Alternative ability though.

No need to maintain is Independent from Powers. Add Selectivity if you wish to maintain control sometimes.

I'd suggest Reflexive from Powers to use Mind Control at a glance or unarmed parry in combat with respective penalties. I wouldn't allow one level of Reduced Time to suffice in such hurry, however. Though you still may benefit from +20% to stop suicide or accident or something else when seconds have a mean.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Nyarli

1)To Condition someone "your victim must be under your control,
cooperative, and conscious". How much should cost Conditioning, that works on the uncooperative victim?

Define what you mean by "uncooperative".

2)How price enhancement that would waive need in Concentration maneuver to mantain mind control. Would one levcel of reduced time suffice? What about removing need in Concentrate maneuver to establish mind control?

Not an option. That's what Compartmentalized mind is for.

[Nyarli]

OK, Compartmentalazied mind with "Limited: one ability" and "No mental separation" is exactly what i have searched for.

About cooperativeness: this sentence

Your victim must be under your control,
cooperative, and conscious.

is pure RAW. I am not sure about it's meaning, but I think, that "under your control and cooperative" means, that if you want to bend someone psyche, he must agree with you, and not "agree because you control him", but agree as if there wasn't any control. If you think that sentence

Your victim must be under your control,
cooperative, and conscious.

have any other meanings, I will be glad to hear your suggestions.

So, the matter is not " what I define as uncooperative", but "what rules define as cooperative".

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Nyarli

is pure RAW. I am not sure about it's meaning, but I think, that "under your control and cooperative" means, that if you want to bend someone psyche, he must agree with you, and not "agree because you control him", but agree as if there wasn't any control. .

Yeah that's what I thought. You have misinterpreted it. Read down to "Conditioning Only". Note how that you can deal with an uncooperative subject just by tying them down? Me, I would rule that victims are "uncooperative" when they are making breakout rolls or their body is somehow moving freely even as you control their minds.

[Nyarli]

So, anyone mindcontrolled already (usually) regarded as cooperative? In this case, i think either wording should be " mind controlled or cooperative" or it is just redundant. Thanks anyway.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Nyarli

So, anyone mindcontrolled already (usually) regarded as cooperative? In this case, i think either wording should be " mind controlled or cooperative" or it is just redundant. Thanks anyway.

I believe the wording is there in case the psi has the 'conditioning only' modifier (or cannot mind control that person because of a failed mind control roll).