New Reality Seeds

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by dcarson

You bring hydrogen and produce methane from the CO2 in the atmosphere. Eight tons of hydrogen lets you make 112 tons of methane. That provides fuel for local rovers and to get back to orbit and transfer to Earth. Google zubrin mars direct.

Okay, that's marginally useful when accounting for hydrogen's hideously poor volume per pound.

I'm going bigger and blast-ier. Power is of little issue after their local fission reactor gets off the ground so to speak.

Local rovers and construction vehicles at TL 7 and awful battery life is an issue I need to consider. I wonder how a space program R&D could push fuel cell tech. Though making methane with its higher density and easier to transport and contain nature make it far more sensible than using LH2.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

So for important dates.

? Impact event in Illinois killing X people and starting a wild fire leaves a lasting imprint on young William Proxmire and later political career making him very pro-space.
? Howard Jarvis dies in an auto accident possibly drunk
? Modified Baruch plan signed by all important parties.
1960, Nixon wins election
? Soviet unmanned moon landing
1964, Kennedy wins election with promises of going for Mars
? Mars slow supply ship reaches destination
1979, Mars colony lands (Just so I can keep everything solidly in TL7)

(So my birthday July 16th is globally important for the first atomic test Trinity, and first manned moon landing? Is it silly of me to want the Mars colony to also land on July 16th 1979?)

An Impact event, to so imprint on a young Proxmire, would have to happen between 1915, his birth, and his entrance into the Hill School, a boarding school for boys that he graduated from in 1933 (per wikipedia) or 34 (per the school site). You don't want him too young (maybe 1921) or before he left for school - which I can't info on so lets say 1929. Not much happened in the 20s - Tunguska in 1908, a 1 megatonner in Brazil in 1930. If the Brazilian event was slightly different - a year or two early, and somewhat larger, a spray of several .1 to .9 megaton hits in and around south Lake Michigan in 1928. You have the Republican primary in Chicago in April, so violent its called the Pineapple Primary, as in hand-grenade. You also have regular scheduled TV by May, and the birth of Mickey Mouse. So mass media would eat up a disaster like that, huge waves hitting Chicago, craters peppering the landscape around it. The public would clamor for missiles just in time huge leaps in the tech in the run up to WWII.

Missile tech during WWII is more advanced thanks to widespread civilian support. Maybe it alters something during the war, but to keep it simple the general path of the war stays the same. Maybe London takes a worse beating, maybe Berlin is subject to British jerry-buster bombs. Going into the 1950s the Soviets and the West have much more advanced missile tech than in Homeline. Sputnik event is way earlier, unmanned Soviet landing Nixon presidency, manned Soviet landing by 1963, Kennedy makes his Mars promise and wins 1964 election.

Mars colony aims for July 4th, 1976 date. Program missed it by years, tries for July 4th again, but finally lands July 16th 1979.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by dcarson

You bring hydrogen and produce methane from the CO2 in the atmosphere. Eight tons of hydrogen lets you make 112 tons of methane. That provides fuel for local rovers and to get back to orbit and transfer to Earth. Google zubrin mars direct.

Can't you get hydrogen from water ice and hydroxyls? The permafrost is likely extensive (we hope) and you know the poles have it. Your methane can be refined from locally available resources, no need to bring hydrogen. Or much at any rate.

[Flyndaran]

I wasn't thinking anything Tunguska sized. It just had to make a memorable impression on a young kid. Enough to keep from thinking all space funding is nonsense, possibly that NOT funding it is suicidal nonsense.

Global effect by effecting one child.
We all carry our childhood beliefs into an adulthood that never would have accepted them if encountered then.
I just happen to find this version the more reasonable and our world's man the short sighted fool.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Can't you get hydrogen from water ice and hydroxyls? The permafrost is likely extensive (we hope) and you know the poles have it. Your methane can be refined from locally available resources, no need to bring hydrogen. Or much at any rate.

The one thing my program has that modern suggestion don't is nuclear power. Cracking the water is child's play compared to issues we might not have as much of a problem with. GMO crops optimized for fully isolated ecosystems, advanced computers, and many others I can't begin to imagine

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I wasn't thinking anything Tunguska sized. It just had to make a memorable impression on a young kid. Enough to keep from thinking all space funding is nonsense, possibly that NOT funding it is suicidal nonsense.

How about having the rock hit Lake Michigan during the Pineapple Primary? A newsreel crew could be outside, covering the crowds at the primary, and catch the impact and subsequent tsunami-equivalent on film.

[ericthered]

Ming-16:
1892
TL 6

The Ming have gone on to dominate the world in a variety of alternates. This one is noteworthy because of what happened anyway: while the chineese expanded to dominate Asia, and the Indian and Pacific Oceans, The west went through the industrial revolution anyway. The Chineese have struggled to keep up, and in the last few years, collapsed into a civil war.

The dominant civilization of this world is europe, which is ruled by a rather aggressive democracy based out of France. England is allied with the main federation, but is unique in europe for still having some aristocrats, most have been executed across Europe. The europeans are currently picking up colonies around the world abondoned by the current chaos and moving into an more conservative political mood.

China splintered 15 years ago, and is currently in a series of civil wars between five claimants to the mandate of heaven. China's colonies, from Siberia to Mexico to South Africa, are faring as well as they can, though they are part of the civil war as well-- south east Asia is particularly bad.

The ottoman empire rules eastern Europe (except for russia, which is part of the european brotherhood of liberty). They're industrializing rapidly, while at the same time experiencing a cultural renisance. they may soon be strong enough to challenge Europe. To the south, Egypt and its arab empire follow suit, grabbing colonies out of africa

The americas are split in ownership. Brazil is among the strongest of the colonies left by the chineese, and is building strong links with Egypt. The Mississippi river valley and eastern sea board are part of europe's sphere, while the Amaru empire has expanded to cover all of classic american civilization under emperor Cuzcuz.

Notes:

This world was constructed using a variation on the rules from Infinite worlds for generating far parallels, with some historical events generated from the Fantasy world building pyramid. It took some constructing to get right, but I find it plausible enough.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by robkelk

How about having the rock hit Lake Michigan during the Pineapple Primary? A newsreel crew could be outside, covering the crowds at the primary, and catch the impact and subsequent tsunami-equivalent on film.

That works. Imagine a little kid having a nightmare after seeing such a newsreel.
To avoid cluttering this thread, I'm starting a new one for fleshing out my alternate.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Ming-16:
1892
TL 6

Notes:

This world was constructed using a variation on the rules from Infinite worlds for generating far parallels, with some historical events generated from the Fantasy world building pyramid. It took some constructing to get right, but I find it plausible enough.

Its OK, and it is plausible, but industrial, democratic, dominant Europe seems less interesting from a story/adventure standpoint. That is, what makes it significantly different than the other, "official" alternates that are Euro-centric? Like Aeolus (jets and kings) or Cornwallis (Washington defeated)?

[VulpesFulva]

Well, for one thing, the New World looks a lot different. I'd hate to think of the tortured phonology that will result from what we know as the Cahuenga in Southern California coming through Chinese instead of Spanish first....

And China is imploding from a position of strength rather than having had to scramble to catch up. While the end result may be the same, the path to get there is different and changes the underlying realpolitik of the situation.