Jump Jets and Rolling

[Magesmiley]

So, I've been meaning to post this up for a bit. At OrcaCon this year, we had a player who brought in jump jets. They were configured in a number of ways, she had both bottom and top mounted-jets.

The initial use was fine and no big deal (yeah, I'm hearing you say... not a chance), using it to jump onto the upper deck of the KEAR Coliseum. We used a set of flight/jump stands that actually made jumping and falling pretty easy. Players just added/removed a number of stands each phase, with the number being added/removed changing every 3 phases. (Incidentally, I would strongly recommend a flight-stand approach like this for 6th edition when dealing with multi-level battlefields - it works and is comprehensible). All was good.

She landed at the far end without incident, got into fight with another car, made a sharp turn on sticky foam and went into a roll.

All good so far, right? Well, after her car rotated 4 times, she was nearly off the edge and decided to go for broke. She couldn't aim anything due to the crash table result, but unaimed firing actions were still permissible.

"I trigger my jump jets"

Michael Owen and myself looked at each other for a moment and cringed.

Then, something about the action made me stop. There is a passage in the jump jets that they are gyro-stabilized and will stop the vehicle from rotating.

I recognize that this was intended to deal with the issue of cars rotating while they are jumping/falling. However, it led to the question of whether it would work in this situation - the car was right side up and the jets were strong enough to put it into the air. Would they stop the rotation of a roll?

I ruled yes. Mind you, she was now airborne and facing sideways off the upper deck, but she managed it - landing and going into a T-Stop without crashing, and being able to drive away.

But, I was curious what everyone else here thought about this - being able to use jump jets to stop the rotation of a roll (or a vault I guess too).

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by Magesmiley

But, I was curious what everyone else here thought about this - being able to use jump jets to stop the rotation of a roll (or a vault I guess too).

I wouldn't have allowed it -- the rotation of a rollover is far more than the rotation resulting from a jump.

[Racer]

After seeing footage of an ejection seat righting itself after punching out at 25° past the vertical , I imagine the Gee Forces on her Car would be far less & the computer controlling her Jump Jets more precise etc ? Yes I'd certainty allow it on those grounds & probably on the grounds of sheer audacity & magnificent game play ! I expect those at the Event will be talking about that one for years to come ... ;-)

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by 43Supporter

I wouldn't have allowed it -- the rotation of a rollover is far more than the rotation resulting from a jump.

Agreed with the further caveat that I would have ruled the vehicle now vaulted in the air!!!

[juris]

Wait... did you say top mounted jump jets? Why.would.anyone.do.that? [spoken in William Shatner voice].

Personally, it's less insane that the current jump rules for 2.5e. It seems like she just wanted the T jump jets as a gyro-stabilizer to take advantage of a rule so obscure that most players don't even know it. Tip of the hat to her for even thinking of such an insane idea. I always lean towards 'yes' for crazy ideas myself - just say the T mounted jump jets are configured as gyro-stabilizers. I agree with your ruling.

Edit: Except... how'd she trigger the jump jets while rolling... isn't that a firing action?

[LokRobster]

I’d have allowed it; I’m of the “wacky fun idea trumps reality and unclear rule” camp.

It is crazy that she mounted jump jets on top... and i didn’t realize that you can trigger unaimed firing actions while rolling. I was a passenger in a minivan rolling once (ice slick near Blackfoot ID) and i just held on to the arm rests for dear life until it stopped.

It sounds like after y’all permitted the jet action that a few other lucky rolls were made to enable the car to keep going. So it wasn’t just a situation of triggering jump jet and suddenly everything is fine.

As Racer mentioned, folks willl remember that roll for a while.

[woodchuck]

[QUOTE=LokRobster;2246608]I’d have allowed it; I’m of the “wacky fun idea trumps reality and unclear rule” camp./QUOTE]

I agree with you. It was probably against the letter of the rules, but some times you need to error on the side of fun.

[Magesmiley]

Originally Posted by juris

Wait... did you say top mounted jump jets? Why.would.anyone.do.that? [spoken in William Shatner voice].

Personally, it's less insane that the current jump rules for 2.5e. It seems like she just wanted the T jump jets as a gyro-stabilizer to take advantage of a rule so obscure that most players don't even know it. Tip of the hat to her for even thinking of such an insane idea. I always lean towards 'yes' for crazy ideas myself - just say the T mounted jump jets are configured as gyro-stabilizers. I agree with your ruling.

Edit: Except... how'd she trigger the jump jets while rolling... isn't that a firing action?

She actually fired bottom mounted jump jets during the roll (with sufficient strength to go airborne). The fact that it was sufficient to put her into the air is part of why I ruled in favor - that's a fair bit of force (it was lifting a 6600 lb. loaded luxury.).

The top mounted ones were to give some extra control if another player tried to anticipate her landing, to make her land faster. And also to allow a high speed jump off the side of the upper deck without having to wait 4 phases to land (which puts you into the wall at certain angles.

As I noted, those high crash table results don't say you lose your firing action, just that no further aimed weapons fire is possible.

FWIW, I thought it was within the letter of the rules. It was also the first time in my decades of playing that I'd ever seen someone come up with a way to recover from a roll other than by crossing your fingers.

She didn't win this year, but she has in the past - once in each of my 3D arenas. One of only two players to have their name on both arenas.

On a side note, I still need to submit a battle report for the event. Phil/Andrew/whomever... who would be the best person to send it off to for a DI post?

[swordtart]

If in doubt rule in favour of style.

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by LokRobster

I’d have allowed it; I’m of the “wacky fun idea trumps reality and unclear rule” camp.

I don't -- I've seen the sort of rules-lawyering that sort of thing inevitably ends up in. (Five words: "_Car Wars_ OGRE Mk. V.")

Granted: The whole "jumping/falling" and Jump Jets rules are such an utter mess, this is the first I've read of someone actually trying to use it....