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Old 01-13-2018, 03:47 AM   #1
Alonsua
 
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Default Dabbler Perk

Is it fine if I train so saying a character to Engineer (main) up to 24 (campaign maximum), with other Engineer skills defaulting at -4 (for a value of 20) then get 5×Dabbler Perks so eight others Engineer default at Engineer (main)+0?
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:05 AM   #2
Ashtagon
 
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Default Re: Dabbler Perk

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking here.

I do know that with dabbler, you don't actually "have" the skills you are dabbling in, merely a raised default in them. Skills that have been raised through use of Dabbler do not themselves grant any default, because you don't "have" the skill through the normal method of spending a point on the skill itself.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:27 AM   #3
johndallman
 
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Default Re: Dabbler Perk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonsua View Post
... if I train a character to Engineer (main) up to 24 (campaign maximum), with other Engineer skills defaulting at -4 (for a value of 20) then get 5×Dabbler Perks so eight others Engineer default at Engineer (main)+0?
Doesn't work that way. Dabbler only raises defaults from attributes, not defaults from other skills.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:21 AM   #4
malloyd
 
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Default Re: Dabbler Perk

No. You're proposal is a little unclear, but I'm still sure the answer is no, because Dabbler has no effect on skill to skill defaults.

The proper way to think about it is not as "raising defaults" but as "fractional points in skills". That's the gap it is intended to fill, but nobody wanted to set a precedent for allowing non-integer numbers of points, because it was obvious that would lead to people insisting on using them with the Modifier rules. Yeah it's also a bit of a mess with the defaults wording, but a more contained one.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:46 AM   #5
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Dabbler Perk

I agree. You cannot save points on buying skills at default with Dabbler.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:00 AM   #6
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Dabbler Perk

From the text for Dabbler in Action 4, there's yet another reason the plan in the OP won't work, even if it did work on defaults from other skills rather than attributes, which is that Dabbling has a cap on skill. It's never better than the 1-CP skill level would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Action 4
Alone or combined with Jack of All Trades (p. 32), Dabbler cannot improve a skill to the level that one or more points would buy. Maximum default level is one lower than the one point level.
An all-around Scotty-style starship engineer does need a rather intimidating list of skills by RAW. It's a common enough character trope, though, and probably shouldn't demand that many CP to build the characters for most games. You might want to look into using a Wildcard skill (Engineer!), or just start ruthlessly combining all the design/repair/use skills into fewer variants and branches.

Last edited by Anaraxes; 01-13-2018 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:25 AM   #7
malloyd
 
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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
or just start ruthlessly combining all the design/repair/use skills into fewer variants and branches.
Many repair skills already have pretty good defaults. I've seriously considered bumping them up one difficulty level and having them apply across the board, and allowing any particular specialty you want to be really good at to be bought as a Technique defaulting to Skill -0 with a cap of Skill +4. This saves a couple points for the specialist (drop two relative skill levels (net 4 points saved at the limit - costs 4 more for the 1 difficulty harder, save 8 for the -2), giving you a -2 in everything (vs - 3 for the usual default), spend 2 of those points on the technique you would have specialized in, and you're back where you would have been for that, with 2 points left over), and both makes the super generalist easy and lets you just ignore the details of specializations for characters it's not very important to - just don't buy any techniques.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:42 AM   #8
johndallman
 
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Default Re: Dabbler Perk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
You might want to look into using a Wildcard skill (Engineer!), or just start ruthlessly combining all the design/repair/use skills into fewer variants and branches.
A third way to do it is to have enough IQ and Talent that you don't need to put many points into each skill. I'm doing this on a starship engineer, and it works pretty well.
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Many repair skills already have pretty good defaults. I've seriously considered bumping them up one difficulty level and having them apply across the board, and allowing any particular specialty you want to be really good at to be bought as a Technique defaulting to Skill -0 with a cap of Skill +4.
I've done that, a bit, in a WWII game. I didn't make them across-the-board, but created larger groups like "Fixed-wing aircraft and their engines," "Road vehicles" and "Off-road vehicles." If you're near a TL boundary, as WWII is, you do need to apply the TL penalties to avoid this trick becoming ridiculously good.

Last edited by johndallman; 01-15-2018 at 09:58 AM. Reason: Correct groupings
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:44 AM   #9
Phantasm
 
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Default Re: Dabbler Perk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
From the text for Dabbler in Action 4, there's yet another reason the plan in the OP won't work, even if it did work on defaults from other skills rather than attributes, which is that Dabbling has a cap on skill. It's never better than the 1-CP skill level would be.



An all-around Scotty-style starship engineer does need a rather intimidating list of skills by RAW. It's a common enough character trope, though, and probably shouldn't demand that many CP to build the characters for most games. You might want to look into using a Wildcard skill (Engineer!), or just start ruthlessly combining all the design/repair/use skills into fewer variants and branches.
Agreed; you either need a Wildcard skill (call it Engineer! or Mechanic! or something similar), or my Condensed Specialties house rule. Essentially, Condensed Specialties is a reverse version of Optional Specialties: with a skill that has a lot of mandatory specialties (Engineer, Artist, Mechanic, Electronics Repair, etc.), taking the skill at one skill level higher (IQ/A becomes IQ/H, IQ/H becomes IQ/VH) means you can have the skill cover all (or most) of the specialties. (I say "most" because I still don't permit Mechanic (IQ/H) to cover Nanotechnology and rarely Microtechnology.)
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:44 AM   #10
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Dabbler Perk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
An all-around Scotty-style starship engineer does need a rather intimidating list of skills by RAW. .
It's not just Gurps v. English here but in Gurps, Engineer is a design Skill. Fixing the ship is Mechanic and Mechanic (Starships) is a valid choice.

<shrug> The guy in the engine room is very reasonably called an "engineer" but the "Mr Fix-it" aspect is Mechanic in Gurps (and several other games). I first started grappling with this semantic issue back in FGU's Space Opera.
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