Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-27-2017, 01:33 PM   #1
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default GURPS WW2 Air Combat?

Are there rules in GURPS WW2 for how to play out air combat? Do they involve maps? Are they abstract? Anyone care to describe what they're like? I have looked at the Their Finest Hour GURPS WW2 module and saw stats for the aircraft for HT and armor and HP of parts of the planes, and move and weapons, and some flak rules that had the start of some interesting/appropriate ideas but then ultimately looked very abstract / incomplete / handwavey to me.

Suppose I wanted to run a campaign about fighter pilots with a main feature of play being dogfights... is there going to be gameplay anywhere near as interesting/complete/accurate as GURPS Advanced/Tactical combat on a hex map, or is it going to be all abstract mapless "roll a contest of skill to see who has the abstract upper hand"?

Is the best & most complete version of the air combat rules in GURPS WWII or in some other place?

(I tried to search here for "GURPS WW2 Air Combat" and got: "Search: Keyword(s): gurps, combat ; Forum: GURPS and child forums
The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search: ww2, air" which was of course not what I wanted.)
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 01:43 PM   #2
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: GURPS WW2 Air Combat?

You can just use the regular GURPS Vehicles rules, but you may run into playability problems due to the significant size and speed differences from man-to-man combat.

If you really want dogfights to be centerpiece actions in your games I would instead suggest using something like Achtung: Spitfire! and incorporate GURPS skills and injury to pilots.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 11-27-2017 at 04:13 PM.
sir_pudding is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 01:49 PM   #3
safisher
Gunnery Sergeant,
 Imperial Marines
Coauthor,
 GURPS High-Tech
 
safisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Default Re: GURPS WW2 Air Combat?

There are dogfight rules, and general vehicles rules, in GURPS Vehicles (3e, easily ported to 4e). There are also "chase rules" in GURPS Action, Exploits (4e), and there is an issue of Pyramid which extends those Action rules to dogfights. These would be fully GURPS compatible and while still abstract, they work fine for most games.
__________________
Buy my stuff on E23. Fav Blogs: Doug Cole here , C.R. Rice's here, & Hans Christian Vortisch here.
safisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 01:57 PM   #4
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: GURPS WW2 Air Combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by safisher View Post
... there is an issue of Pyramid which extends those Action rules to dogfights.
That's "Dogfight Action!" in Pyramid #3/53. Currently discounted in the sale.
johndallman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 02:03 PM   #5
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: GURPS WW2 Air Combat?

That would seem to be the opposite of what the OP is looking for.
sir_pudding is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 03:40 PM   #6
safisher
Gunnery Sergeant,
 Imperial Marines
Coauthor,
 GURPS High-Tech
 
safisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Default Re: GURPS WW2 Air Combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
That would seem to be the opposite of what the OP is looking for.
"Is the best & most complete version of the air combat rules in GURPS WWII or in some other place?"

I answered _that_ question.
__________________
Buy my stuff on E23. Fav Blogs: Doug Cole here , C.R. Rice's here, & Hans Christian Vortisch here.
safisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 04:23 PM   #7
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: GURPS WW2 Air Combat?

Interesting, thanks.

Does GURPS WWII then not add much/any rules for aerial combat?

Hmm, checking GURPS Vehicles, I'm only seeing "aerial combat" at page 164, which has a nice detailed rule from aircraft strafing ground targets... and I am finding pretty much nothing about air-to-air combat... except wing/rotor/airbag damage. Oh, I see, there is the Vehicle Action section and its Flying Movement subsection... hmm... well that is a mapped combat system. Seems both detailed and generic, and it'd be interesting to playtest - what map to use would be an interesting choice given the speeds. Has anyone actually played out dogfights with it?

Adapting (or merging) a good WW2 air combat wargame to GURPS seems like it might make more sense.

I can imagine there existing a fairly detailed and interesting abstract air combat system, but is there one someplace? I remember browsing GURPS Lensman and seeing it attempted an abstract space-dogfight system - does anyone know how that compares to the "Dogfight Action!" Pyramid article? (I've seen the Action chase rules, and they seem like a start that could maybe be developed, but as written seem pretty lite and I'd imagine would want careful tuning & playtesting.)
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 04:29 PM   #8
Tinman
 
Tinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New York City
Default Re: GURPS WW2 Air Combat?

If you want a tactical hex map dog-fight, maybe try the spaceship combat rules in Traveller: Interstellar Wars?
Tinman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 06:34 PM   #9
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: GURPS WW2 Air Combat?

I got the "Dogfight Action!" Pyramid issue and checked it out. It's got a few tips for adapting the Action 2 chase rules to be a dogfight system. I'll give that a try out of curiosity when I find time, but I'm thinking adapting/merging GURPS with Achtung Spitfire! looks like it may be the most promising route, since it seems to be the only thing really playtested and intended for use as a historical combat game, though the grain is pretty low, but it should be possible to combine with GURPS. Not sure I'm actually interested enough to do that at this point, though.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 06:45 PM   #10
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: GURPS WW2 Air Combat?

In general I think if you want an aspect of your game to be a full board game on its own, and it's an aspect that the scale of GURPS doesn't handle well, then you are usually better off integrating a good specific purpose board game into GURPS than you are trying to expand the scale. If you want a more abstract, or quick approach instead than subsystems like the chase rules in Action, or GURPS Spaceships combat, or GURPS Mass Combat are good places to start, but these are intended as secondary systems that resolve quickly with minimal detail, not as the centerpiece action.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 11-27-2017 at 11:33 PM.
sir_pudding is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
aerial combat, dogfight, gurps wwii

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.