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Old 01-10-2018, 02:50 PM   #271
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: TFT - Highly skilled characters.

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi all,
I am totally charmed that TFT is coming back! Great work Steve!
<waves>

Hallo Rick. Hope all's well!

--Ty
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:09 PM   #272
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: TFT - Highly skilled characters.

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
<waves>

Hallo Rick. Hope all's well!

--Ty
Hi Ty!
Yes, things are going very well. I've retired and with some of my extra time, I've been doing work on my TFT campaign. :-D

I have a new email, so if you want to contact me, send me a request thru this forum and I'll PM you with the new email.

Warm regards, Rick
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:14 PM   #273
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Charles G. View Post

Well, actually, they didn't, if no one got past UC III..
.[/I]
None of the players achieved UC V but a number of NPCs were that level, including all Mnoren 😜
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Old 01-11-2018, 06:28 PM   #274
Bayarea
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

[QUOTE=JLV;2147322]Steve, since we're on the subject of rules issues, one of my main ones has always been "attribute bloat." I've written about it several times over on Mark Tabyanan's fan-site, and pretty much every house rule I've ever made for TFT has been dedicated to overcoming that issue. If the average human female has a ST of 9-11 and the average human male has a ST of 10-12, being able to bump a character up to a ST of 43 seems...excessive. Similarly, if an IQ of greater than 14 is considered "genius," and we know that actual "geniuses" are rare in human history, an IQ of 36 somehow seems extreme. DX, at least, tends to be self-limiting to some extent -- after about 20 it's really sort of pointless to add in extra DX points for the most part.



I have to respond to the bloat misconception. This is what gets me even playing the same character for 35 years it would be nearly impossible to get to ST 43, DX20 and IQ 36. Even with wishes which are limited to increasing an attribute to 16 you would have get 47 more attribute points a 95 point character at 640000 EP to get one attribute point. Or to put it another way you would have to kill 10000 7hex dragons if it was only the one character getting all the ep. The beauty of the system is that people still get killed just like real life. I have gotten a couple of characters up to the 56- 60 point range but then they retired or became sponsors for younger PC's, but most die at some point due to either a bad die roll or treachery. Rich people tend to have enemies.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:09 PM   #275
Bayarea
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
I joined the SCA to research MELEE (and had a lot of fun, and stayed in for years). One of the first things that I learned is that most swordfighting does not involve parries; fencing is a spectacular exception. If you are using your weapon to parry, you are not using it to strike.

Now, rattan (which is what SCA weapons are made of) is NOT the same thing as metal. It is known :) I am told by those who have swung real swords at real shields that metal has less "bounce" even when it does not bite into its target. But I came away feeling that if you have a blocking device (cloak, shield, second sword, chair) you should use that to block with, and use your weapon to hit with.

I enjoyed SCA fencing a great deal, and eventually became competent, and it really is a different art.
As a fencer of over 20 years of experience and having experience with real sword as well I tend to agree for the most part especially in a 5 second window someone is usually going to hit. I always felt that this part was subsumed into the game mechanics, as it says on pg 20 of AM "An ordinary fighter takes any opening and thanks the gods of war for it"

That being said there are always the Scaramouche's, D'Artagnan's and Rochefort's of the fiction world, so I suggest a talent:

Advanced Fencing (11 IQ) The best of the best fencers you must have Sword, and Fencing talents and a DX of 15 and your armor may not reduce your adjDX below 15 when you use this ability. You may use any sword you have the strength for. When you use this talent you are allow to parry one non missle attack from your front hexes with a base adjDX of 6, then you add the difference between the adjDX of the attacker versus the adjDX of the Fencer. For example on of the Cardinal’s Guards attacks D’Artagnan the Guards adjDX is 11 and D’Artagnan’s is 17 a net of 6. So Guard rolls to hit (he lands) now D’Artagnan has to roll a 12 or less to parry which he does. Then he may attack at -4 to his adjDX or 13.

The other option is that the fencer can add another -4 to his adjDX to add 4 to his parry option. For example D’Artagnan is fighting Rochefort (adjDX 16) he may want to make sure he doesn’t get hit by reducing the accuracy of his riposte. In this case the D’Artagnan has to roll a 11 or less (6 +1 for the difference in adjDX +4 for reducing his attack accuracy. Then D’Artagnan needs a 9 or less to hit on his attack.

This could be combined with Two Weapons and add the option of a heavy cloak.

Last edited by Bayarea; 01-11-2018 at 07:14 PM. Reason: bad typist
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:32 PM   #276
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

Hi all,
After TFT died, I bought a lot of GURPS stuff. I tried to move my players over to GURPS a couple times, but it did not take. It just seemed slower. I reasoned that we knew TFT really well, but GURPS was slow because we didn't know the more complex rules. So I started a GURPS campaign and we played it until all of use knew GURPS backwards and forwards. We were not slow because we didn't know the rules.

The PC's knew the importance of good active defences, and put a lot of points into them. My NPC's felt the same way.

---

Normally, a fight against a bunch of mooks results in the PC's getting a wound or two and the mooks dying. (Or some die and the rest run away.)

In TFT, a PC swings and hits, the enemy swings and hits, the PC swings and hits and the combat is over. Nice and quick.

In GURPS, the PC swings and hits, but enemy parries. Enemy swings and hits, and PC parries. PC swings and hits and Enemy parries. Enemy misses. PC swings and hits and enemy misses his parry! Enemy swings and hits and PC parries. PC swings and hits and enemy parries. Enemy swings and hits, but PC parries. PC hits, enemy misses parry and combat is over.

Exactly the same result, but the GURPS fight takes 3 times longer than TFT to play out.

After that, we went back to TFT and stayed there.

---

I game mastered a pbem game in Dave Seagraves Thail campaign, and - foolishly - I used his rules, rather than my own. He had an auto parry rule, and for the characters with a high DX, well, they were not hit much. Fighting NPC's with high DX was slow and frustrating.

I STRONGLY recommend against any sort of parrying as a free action in TFT. If you want complex and realistic cut and thrust, then play GURPS.

If you want to be harder to hit, get a Blur ring, or add some talents where anyone attacking you thru your front hexes gets a -3 adj DX to hit you. I have made such talents and they work. I really like the roll to hit, then roll for damage mechanic in TFT.

If you just like the idea of cut and thrust, clashes of swords, then fine. But don't make parrying a free action, which comes into play on EVERY attack.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:55 PM   #277
Melichor
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

Back in the day we added these talents to give characters a higher level of weapon skill and ability.

IQ 9
"Melee Weapon Talent" Expert (2): The ability to use these weapons in an expert fashion. This talent gives you +2 DX when attacking with these weapons. You are also proficient in using these weapons for defense, your weapon acts as a shield to stop 2 hits.
Prerequisite: Melee WEAPON TALENT.

IQ 11
"Melee Weapon Talent" Master (2): You have Mastered the ability to use these weapons. This talent gives you +2 DX (in addition to the +2 bonus from "Weapon Talent" Expert) when attacking with these weapons.This talent permits a character fighting with these weapons, on
any turn he attacks, to do any one of the following:
(a) attack twice, at normal DX for the first attack and -4 for the second one. The attacks may be against the same OR different figures.
(b) make a normal attack and parry using the weapon to stop 4 hits.
(c) when Defending, stopping 6 hits of damage in addition to the opponent rolling 4 dice when attacking.
Prerequisite: "Weapon Talent" Expert.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:08 PM   #278
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Melichor's new weapon talents.

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Originally Posted by Melichor View Post
Back in the day we added these talents to give characters a higher level of weapon skill and ability. ...
Hi Melichor,
I rather like your talents except for one thing. The biggest problem in TFT is that long term characters gain lots of attributes and all start to feel the same. (High in all three attributes.) Also everyone soon gets a really high DX and hits almost all the time.

So these talents that give you a higher DX on attacking, just makes that evil day come sooner. I would be much more interested in using such talents in my campaign, if they did NOT give the DX bonus on offence.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:41 PM   #279
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

I spent some of my office day in going through the SPACE GAMER file and marking TFT articles worthy of reprint. Some of them may have been (or may be about to be) overtaken by events, but in the context of the original rules there is a lot of fun material there.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:24 PM   #280
JLV
 
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Bayarea View Post
I have to respond to the bloat misconception. This is what gets me even playing the same character for 35 years it would be nearly impossible to get to ST 43, DX20 and IQ 36. Even with wishes which are limited to increasing an attribute to 16 you would have get 47 more attribute points a 95 point character at 640000 EP to get one attribute point. Or to put it another way you would have to kill 10000 7hex dragons if it was only the one character getting all the ep. The beauty of the system is that people still get killed just like real life. I have gotten a couple of characters up to the 56- 60 point range but then they retired or became sponsors for younger PC's, but most die at some point due to either a bad die roll or treachery. Rich people tend to have enemies.
Not a "misconception" at all. Just because you disagree with the observation doesn't invalidate it. Obviously, "43" was an exaggeration for effect (though I have seen a character with that general level of ST), but even a ST of 25 or so is a huge disconnect with what is specifically stated to be the Human norm in the rule books (9-11, depending on sex of the character). And while we can all agree that characters are obviously a cut above the norm, that's already partially addressed at character creation by allowing 32 points for beginning characters vice the 30 that a "normal" person would be worth (again, according to ITL). Nor am I the only one who has experienced this over the past four decades. So it's not as if I'm bringing up something that isn't already known to be an issue. Finally, even Steve conceded that Attribute Bloat was a problem. Also, I note that you rely solely on the XP for killing things for your numbers. In my games, characters gained XP for a wide variety of acts, precisely as suggested in ITL.
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